2019 NBA Draft Lottery

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In2ition
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:12 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:55 am
Split T wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:06 am
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:04 am
Split T wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:41 am


You could have Dedmon defend the 5 and play the 4 on offense.
I was curious if you were seeing him as a starter or not over Oubre.
Sorry I should have let RW answer...it’s his idea...I think I would probably start Dedmon...or just change it depending on matchup
Split T is right, Indy. I'd start Dedmon alongside Ayton and have them switch the 4/5 on offense/defense. Oubre would come off the bench, Bridges starts at 3.
Thanks guys--I was just curious how Oubre would be sold on re-signing here only to come off the bench. And do we want to pay our 6th man 15M/year? That is what we think it will take to keep him, right?

All that said, I agree that Dedmon would be a good target. Is he going to command more than 12M/3 years?
I agree with this. Oubre and the Suns played better with Oubre in the starting lineup. Also, Dedmon would be a good target.
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ShelC
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by ShelC »

I'm more comfortable giving Oubre 15 mil than keeping Warren at 12mil. Warren has to be moved. Can't go into next season with JJ, Bridges, Warren and Oubre again. I think if we don't re-sign Oubre, it'd be a drag not having a young player who brought so much positive energy, is young and can be part of the core and seems to be boys with Book.

He seemed intent on being back so maybe there were preliminary discussion and things are in a good place but who knows. I think Holmes should also be a priority but I'm not sure the FO feels that way.

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O_Gardino
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by O_Gardino »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:32 am
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 9:12 am
Thanks guys--I was just curious how Oubre would be sold on re-signing here only to come off the bench. And do we want to pay our 6th man 15M/year? That is what we think it will take to keep him, right?

All that said, I agree that Dedmon would be a good target. Is he going to command more than 12M/3 years?
Oubre's situation makes me unconfortable, but you are sending a very poor message if you let him go as he brought positive things to the table. His chemistry and intensity in particular was a very nice sight.

Still, I see him as a very replaceable player and I am scared to give him those 15M.
If he took 10M per, I'd say go for it (dumping Jackson would help regardless of the final figure).

As for Dedmon, his last deal was a two year 12M total. If you give him 4/40 (player option) at 12:01 I believe he takes it, because a lot of money is going to be blocked until be big dominoes start to fall. Same with Collison. But I am not holding my breath that Jones and the new FO pull a blitzkrieg move like that. More probably, they'll mess around wasting time trying to get interviews with big FAs, only to be left looking at scraps.
That's where I stand with Oubre, too. I think it's tough to build a contender with Oubre taking 15 million per year, but a franchise that hasn't found many good players in the last 10 years has to keep any talent they accidentally get.
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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.

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In2ition
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by In2ition »

Do any of you guys listen to the Open Floor podcast? Their hosts are insufferable. I get that the Suns have been bad, but I don't think they tanked by anything other than their mgmt being incompetent. They were happy that the Suns fell, because they don't deserve a good pick.

I could see teams tanking if they are just good enough to get in, but at a lower seed and not quite ready, so they all of a sudden have better odds to jump up into top 4. I'm sure they don't want to be in limbo and see a possible shot at getting a franchise changer. So, I don't think this stops tanking.
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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

In2ition wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:31 am
Do any of you guys listen to the Open Floor podcast? Their hosts are insufferable. I get that the Suns have been bad, but I don't think they tanked by anything other than their mgmt being incompetent. They were happy that the Suns fell, because they don't deserve a good pick.

I could see teams tanking if they are just good enough to get in, but at a lower seed and not quite ready, so they all of a sudden have better odds to jump up into top 4. I'm sure they don't want to be in limbo and see a possible shot at getting a franchise changer. So, I don't think this stops tanking.
If I were not a Suns fan I would be happy they fell. Not because the coach decided to tank the team, but because you shouldn't reward incompetent owners that can't put together a team capable of being at least mediocre.

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In2ition
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.
Could the Suns trade Warren to Atl for #10? Would the Suns even want that? It would give a little bit of salary help, I think.
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ShelC
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by ShelC »

15mil today is like 8-9mil 10 years ago.

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In2ition
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by In2ition »

Right? And the cap is only going to increase, so you figure that the number becomes more and more feasible as the years go on.
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Mori Chu
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Mori Chu »

It's hard to get used to, but $15m is not a huge contract in the 2019-20 NBA. Even rookies like Zion are going to be making around $9-10m. $15m is slightly over middle-class. Max guys can make upwards of $35-40m. And the cap is what, $110m, $120m? You could literally pay every rotation guy on your roster $15m and still be under the luxury tax.

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O_Gardino
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by O_Gardino »

Bottom line, most of the great teams in the league right now are not paying a whole bunch of guys mid range salaries. They are paying their stars huge salaries and filling out the rest of the roster with low cost options.

This year, the cap was almost exactly 100, and I don't expect it to soar up over the next 5 years. With Lebron out of the playoffs, ratings are down. We payed over 111 this season with no max contracts because we have 5 guys in the 6-13 range and one guy making 19.

It's not that you can't have a guy at that price, it's that bringing him in means you give up other options. So your core had better be good enough as is. Do you think Booker / Bridges / Oubre / Ayton is good enough to commit a combined 85 or 90 once they are all off the rookie deals?

I think you could build a better top 4 for the same price. But I don't think Sarver can, so I'll hope that we at least hold on to the good players we do have.
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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

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Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:15 pm
It's hard to get used to, but $15m is not a huge contract in the 2019-20 NBA. Even rookies like Zion are going to be making around $9-10m. $15m is slightly over middle-class. Max guys can make upwards of $35-40m. And the cap is what, $110m, $120m? You could literally pay every rotation guy on your roster $15m and still be under the luxury tax.
The Warriors are only paying 5 guys above 9M this year. The rest of the roster has two guys between 5-8M, and the rest below 2M. And they have a cap hit of 148M.

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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

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Mori Chu
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Mori Chu »

Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:48 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:15 pm
It's hard to get used to, but $15m is not a huge contract in the 2019-20 NBA. Even rookies like Zion are going to be making around $9-10m. $15m is slightly over middle-class. Max guys can make upwards of $35-40m. And the cap is what, $110m, $120m? You could literally pay every rotation guy on your roster $15m and still be under the luxury tax.
The Warriors are only paying 5 guys above 9M this year. The rest of the roster has two guys between 5-8M, and the rest below 2M. And they have a cap hit of 148M.
I'm certainly not advocating for handing out $15m contracts like candy nor for overpaying mediocre players. My point is just that Oubre is a pretty good player and that $15m is not a crazy salary for a player of his ability level given the current cap and NBA landscape.

You're right about the Warriors, but that's because all of their stars are in their roughly late-20s and are being paid pretty huge contracts. Having a superteam tends to skew the numbers. I would rather compare against some other successful teams like the Bucks, Celtics, Blazers, Nuggets, etc.

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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:07 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:48 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:15 pm
It's hard to get used to, but $15m is not a huge contract in the 2019-20 NBA. Even rookies like Zion are going to be making around $9-10m. $15m is slightly over middle-class. Max guys can make upwards of $35-40m. And the cap is what, $110m, $120m? You could literally pay every rotation guy on your roster $15m and still be under the luxury tax.
The Warriors are only paying 5 guys above 9M this year. The rest of the roster has two guys between 5-8M, and the rest below 2M. And they have a cap hit of 148M.
I'm certainly not advocating for handing out $15m contracts like candy nor for overpaying mediocre players. My point is just that Oubre is a pretty good player and that $15m is not a crazy salary for a player of his ability level given the current cap and NBA landscape.

You're right about the Warriors, but that's because all of their stars are in their roughly late-20s and are being paid pretty huge contracts. Having a superteam tends to skew the numbers. I would rather compare against some other successful teams like the Bucks, Celtics, Blazers, Nuggets, etc.
3 of those 4 teams are in the top 10 in payroll this year. And all 4 are at least 18M over the cap.

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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.
I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.

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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.
I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.
Do you really think Memphis is going to trade him?

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Indy
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Indy »

And 35th best? I will admit that I don't watch every game around the league, but if there are 35 better PGs out there, I am not seeing them. Although I will admit that I am not thinking about guys we have no chance (or shouldn't want) to get.

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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by JeremyG »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.
I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.
I accidentally clicked on the link in your signature haha, and it looks like the Suns are trying to hire some scouting help: https://recruiting2.ultipro.com/PHO1000 ... 49077f74ed
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Shabazz
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Re: 2019 NBA Draft Lottery

Post by Shabazz »

Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:26 pm
Indy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 am
I would be extremely happy with our off season if we find a way to keep #6, sign Dedmond and Collison for 10M/year each for 3-4 years, and Oubre for 12/3. We would have to export TJ^2 and please don't trade Josh if you are taking a beating/giving up resources to do it.
I wouldn't. If that's our offseason, then we're last in the West again and it isn't close. The # 6 pick in a crappy draft, Dedmon and Collison don't do anything for the short term outlook of this team and barely dent the long term trajectory. Dedmon is fine, but he's a middling option and I'm surprised at the Collison love. He's steady, but completely mediocre and probably the 35th best PG in the league. That's an upgrade when we're starting the 50th best PG in the league, but will not help us move up in the standings.

IMO, there is a massive gap between Conley and Collison. I'd happily spend $30M on Conley for these next two years. He's got a game that will age nicely. He's a good defender. He can play on and off the ball. And I honestly think he can turn us into a borderline playoff team. That's worth the extra cost. I'd also give up #6 for him in a trade if that's what it took. Breaking the cycle of losing is more important to the franchise than another asset that needs development.
Do you really think Memphis is going to trade him?
For the right offer, sure. They're about to draft a good PG and traded for a pretty good one at the deadline last year as well.

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