Around the League: The Off-season

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Split T
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Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Split T » Fri May 17, 2019 10:12 am

Didn’t know where to put this, so I created a new topic.



Really feels like AD is going to the Knicks...or Celtics of New Orleans loves Tatum.

Let’s compare offers:

Top assets: #3(RJ) vs Tatum vs #4(Culver)

Secondary assets: (Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, future Dallas 1sts) vs (3 mid to late firsts, future Memphis pick, jaylen Brown) vs (Kuzma, Ingram, Ball, Hart)

Top assets are all about the same to me. I think I’d say Tatum is a little ahead of RJ/Culver. But pairing RJ back with Zion is interesting. As far as secondary assets, I think the lakers have the best if New Orleans wants to stay decent. Boston probably has the best value with that Memphis pick that could be really high.

So I think Boston could get Davis if they want...not sure they’d offer the farm though without Kyrie coming back. Davis might just leave after 1 year.

Lakers would offer everything, but it sounds like pelicans aren’t sending him there.

Knicks will probably offer everything, which might end up being the best deal. Especially if they can land some major free agents.

What other offers might pop up?

Could NO just say screw it and keep AD?

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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by In2ition » Fri May 17, 2019 10:30 am

Split T wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:12 am
Really feels like AD is going to the Knicks...or Celtics of New Orleans loves Tatum.

Let’s compare offers:

Top assets: #3(RJ) vs Tatum vs #4(Culver)

Secondary assets: (Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, future Dallas 1sts) vs (3 mid to late firsts, future Memphis pick, jaylen Brown) vs (Kuzma, Ingram, Ball, Hart)

Top assets are all about the same to me. I think I’d say Tatum is a little ahead of RJ/Culver. But pairing RJ back with Zion is interesting. As far as secondary assets, I think the lakers have the best if New Orleans wants to stay decent. Boston probably has the best value with that Memphis pick that could be really high.

So I think Boston could get Davis if they want...not sure they’d offer the farm though without Kyrie coming back. Davis might just leave after 1 year.

Lakers would offer everything, but it sounds like pelicans aren’t sending him there.

Knicks will probably offer everything, which might end up being the best deal. Especially if they can land some major free agents.

What other offers might pop up?

Could NO just say screw it and keep AD?
We don't even know if Tatum is going to be offered. If they lose Kyrie for nothing, then I would be a little hesitant to offer him, just for a chance that AD stays past 1 year.

At the same time, RJ would have 2 more years of control and has a higher ceiling than Tatum, imo, along with being Zion's best friend. On top of that, I guess I see Robinson as possibly an even bigger asset then Tatum.

NO could possibly just say screw it and keep AD and see how it goes until the trade deadline. Of course, it would the trade that could be fetched for AD if things don't improve.
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wpmiller42
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by wpmiller42 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:34 pm

If I'm New Orleans, I think I try and make it work with AD until the deadline. It's not like his value is going to decrease or anything crazy just because the deadline is coming up; I just think AD would reconsider if the team was winning. Plus, I think it would be hard to walk away from the super max that NO would be able to offer him.

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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by In2ition » Fri May 17, 2019 12:42 pm

wpmiller42 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:34 pm
If I'm New Orleans, I think I try and make it work with AD until the deadline. It's not like his value is going to decrease or anything crazy just because the deadline is coming up; I just think AD would reconsider if the team was winning. Plus, I think it would be hard to walk away from the super max that NO would be able to offer him.
I guess it's up to Jrue now as the defacto leader of the team and whether or not he wants AD back. I think AD is getting bad advice from Klutch on this one. It's not like he has this crazy amazing personality that everyone loves. He probably thinks he needs to go to a big market to make money, but honestly, it's just him. Maybe he's right, and could get more money because his personality isn't doing it, but leaving all the super max money on the table seems like a bad idea. Kawhi is doing the same, right?
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
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Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Indy » Fri May 17, 2019 12:54 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:42 pm
wpmiller42 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:34 pm
If I'm New Orleans, I think I try and make it work with AD until the deadline. It's not like his value is going to decrease or anything crazy just because the deadline is coming up; I just think AD would reconsider if the team was winning. Plus, I think it would be hard to walk away from the super max that NO would be able to offer him.
I guess it's up to Jrue now as the defacto leader of the team and whether or not he wants AD back. I think AD is getting bad advice from Klutch on this one. It's not like he has this crazy amazing personality that everyone loves. He probably thinks he needs to go to a big market to make money, but honestly, it's just him. Maybe he's right, and could get more money because his personality isn't doing it, but leaving all the super max money on the table seems like a bad idea. Kawhi is doing the same, right?
I am not completely sure, but the difference in taxes between Toronto and the US might make that difference a lot smaller (super max in Canada verses max in US). And he is young enough where he might want to do the max for a shorter period so he can opt out and get a new max.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Split T » Fri May 17, 2019 1:09 pm

I don’t think it’s about money for AD...I don’t think he thinks he can win in NO.

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Indy » Fri May 17, 2019 1:18 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:09 pm
I don’t think it’s about money for AD...I don’t think he thinks he can win in NO.
That is the feeling I get too. When Billups was talking a while back he told the story about KG. He said several other player and him took KG aside and told him he gave Minny enough time. It was time to look out for his career, and he would have to leave Minny to do it. Changed KG's entire legacy. Imagine how different people would think of him if he stayed. He would basically be the Dan Marino of the NBA. "yeah, he was one of the best ever... BUT!"

AD doesn't want that. He wants to be a champion.

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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by In2ition » Fri May 17, 2019 1:26 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:54 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:42 pm
wpmiller42 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:34 pm
If I'm New Orleans, I think I try and make it work with AD until the deadline. It's not like his value is going to decrease or anything crazy just because the deadline is coming up; I just think AD would reconsider if the team was winning. Plus, I think it would be hard to walk away from the super max that NO would be able to offer him.
I guess it's up to Jrue now as the defacto leader of the team and whether or not he wants AD back. I think AD is getting bad advice from Klutch on this one. It's not like he has this crazy amazing personality that everyone loves. He probably thinks he needs to go to a big market to make money, but honestly, it's just him. Maybe he's right, and could get more money because his personality isn't doing it, but leaving all the super max money on the table seems like a bad idea. Kawhi is doing the same, right?
I am not completely sure, but the difference in taxes between Toronto and the US might make that difference a lot smaller (super max in Canada verses max in US). And he is young enough where he might want to do the max for a shorter period so he can opt out and get a new max.
Good point.
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Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Split T » Fri May 17, 2019 1:57 pm



2 year ban

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O_Gardino
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by O_Gardino » Fri May 17, 2019 2:18 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:57 pm


2 year ban
Welp, that Pacers contract was his last. He'll be 32 when the ban is over, and didn't play all that well for the Pacers this season.
SELL THE TEAM
#notank
#sarverout

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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by In2ition » Fri May 17, 2019 2:19 pm

O_Gardino wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:18 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:57 pm


2 year ban
Welp, that Pacers contract was his last. He'll be 32 when the ban is over, and didn't play all that well for the Pacers this season.
It's looking like either China or Big3 for Evans now.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
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Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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ShelC
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by ShelC » Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 am

Say AD is like - "I'll sign an extension to play with Booker and be in Phx longterm(ish)....

I don't think you can start a convo with the Pels unless you're starting with Ayton and the #6 pick. I think NO getting a bigman back is key, which is why I don't think the C's offer is really all that great. I love Tatum and he'd be great to add to a core of Jrue and Zion, but you can always find swingmen. Jaylen Brown, Tatum, Smart and picks....don't think that's such a great package compared to what we or the Knicks or Lakers can offer and they don't have any bigs to offer up.

If we're offering #6, Ayton, Warren (move his salary) and Jackson (throw in) - that's a pretty hefty offer and Warren can be a great perimeter scorer for them just the same. A Zion/Ayton frontcourt looks great on paper. The names just aren't all that sexy with Warren and Jackson. I'd leave Bridges out of the deal as long as I could. I don't think we'd have a shot with just Ayton or the #6 pick.

If the Knicks are offering #3, Knox, Mitch Robinson and filler (like a Dallas pick, Lance Thomas or Frank or someone)....it's a pretty comparable package IMO but not as much "win-now" talent. Knox and Robinson are still pretty raw but Mitch would be the key piece along with the #3 pick. His length, athleticism and defense next to Zion would make that frontcourt a highlight waiting to happen. Knicks fans think they can make an offer without including Mitch, but I doubt it.

The Lakers can offer the #4 pick and arguably the most readily available talent with Kuz, Ingram, Hart, maybe Ball. If Zion is their 5, Kuz is a perfect PF. Ingram is a sexy name who's better than a guy like Knox but not as good a scorer as TJ. With #4 they can take another SG/SF to develop.

So I think we're right there in terms of the kind of package we can put together. But will AD sign on longterm here and is a roster of....PG(?), Booker, Bridges/Oubre, PF(?) and Davis a good enough core to attract other FAs and/or compete at a high enough level in the short term?

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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat May 18, 2019 1:26 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 am
Say AD is like - "I'll sign an extension to play with Booker and be in Phx longterm(ish)....

...

So I think we're right there in terms of the kind of package we can put together. But will AD sign on long-term here and is a roster of....PG(?), Booker, Bridges/Oubre, PF(?) and Davis a good enough core to attract other FAs and/or compete at a high enough level in the short term?
It sounds like quite a long shot, but I do think that if somehow that worked out, the core you describe would attract other players. Guys around the league like Booker and AD, and I think Oubre is a friendly/fun guy as well. It might depend on who the PG is, but I bet if we had that core, some decent PF would want to come join in.

I haven't really allowed myself to consider the possibility that a superstar like Davis would want to come here. I doubt he would want to, given his current team and wanting to get out of a losing situation. But if he said he'd resign, I would absolutely trade Ayton, #6, Warren, and filler for AD. Easily, without hesitation. Ayton is a nice player, but in my wildest dreams of his ceiling he wouldn't be as good as AD is now.

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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by INFORMER » Sat May 18, 2019 4:13 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 am
Say AD is like - "I'll sign an extension to play with Booker and be in Phx longterm(ish)....

I don't think you can start a convo with the Pels unless you're starting with Ayton and the #6 pick. I think NO getting a bigman back is key, which is why I don't think the C's offer is really all that great. I love Tatum and he'd be great to add to a core of Jrue and Zion, but you can always find swingmen. Jaylen Brown, Tatum, Smart and picks....don't think that's such a great package compared to what we or the Knicks or Lakers can offer and they don't have any bigs to offer up.
Wow, I completely disagree. If I'm New Orleans, I'd take Brown and Tatum (plus #14 and #20) any day over Ayton. New Orleans has an interior player in Zion, plus they can bring back Diallo and Okafor. Ayton would do nothing for me.
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ShelC
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by ShelC » Sat May 18, 2019 4:46 pm

I get that and I think it depends on how they view Zion and intend to use him. I don't think they'd be that quick to dismiss it tho.

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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by ShelC » Sat May 18, 2019 6:09 pm



Riley's supposedly liked Conley for a while and they can offer Dragic's ending deal plus a guy like James Johnson, Olynyk, Waiters or Richardson. Also there were reports today that Igor interviewed with Memphis, so there could be the reunion in Memphis some of us hoped for here. Or, Memphis can hire Igor and we can trade Tyler, Warren, Elie/Melton and JJ for Conley?

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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by In2ition » Sat May 18, 2019 6:12 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:13 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 am
Say AD is like - "I'll sign an extension to play with Booker and be in Phx longterm(ish)....

I don't think you can start a convo with the Pels unless you're starting with Ayton and the #6 pick. I think NO getting a bigman back is key, which is why I don't think the C's offer is really all that great. I love Tatum and he'd be great to add to a core of Jrue and Zion, but you can always find swingmen. Jaylen Brown, Tatum, Smart and picks....don't think that's such a great package compared to what we or the Knicks or Lakers can offer and they don't have any bigs to offer up.
Wow, I completely disagree. If I'm New Orleans, I'd take Brown and Tatum (plus #14 and #20) any day over Ayton. New Orleans has an interior player in Zion, plus they can bring back Diallo and Okafor. Ayton would do nothing for me.
I guess we don't know if Tatum is even on the table in a trade. He might not be if they lose Kyrie for nothing.

It's partially eye of the beholder as to best way to build around Zion in an AD trade package and what's offered.
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by JeremyG » Sat May 18, 2019 7:35 pm

No way am I trading Ayton for Davis. Ayton just had a better rookie season than Davis. Who's to say he won't be a better player.

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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sun May 19, 2019 12:17 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:13 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 am
Say AD is like - "I'll sign an extension to play with Booker and be in Phx longterm(ish)....

I don't think you can start a convo with the Pels unless you're starting with Ayton and the #6 pick. I think NO getting a bigman back is key, which is why I don't think the C's offer is really all that great. I love Tatum and he'd be great to add to a core of Jrue and Zion, but you can always find swingmen. Jaylen Brown, Tatum, Smart and picks....don't think that's such a great package compared to what we or the Knicks or Lakers can offer and they don't have any bigs to offer up.
Wow, I completely disagree. If I'm New Orleans, I'd take Brown and Tatum (plus #14 and #20) any day over Ayton. New Orleans has an interior player in Zion, plus they can bring back Diallo and Okafor. Ayton would do nothing for me.
Multiple assets is the key here. Ayton alone, and I take Tatum (not Brown, though), even if he has not made a leap this year. But if PHX adds #6 and some extra assets, that rivals with any offer NOP can get unless somebody makes a consolidated star available.

Now, from PHX standpoint, you'd be giving up basically everything so AD better be giving you a guarantee. In that case you have to pull the trigger even if it cost you essentially all you have besides Booker.

But if AD doesn't commit, I need to keep one of Ayton/pick. And I'd give up #2021 unprotected (plus a pick swap in their favor) to be left with Booker-Bridges-Davis-Ayton.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: The Off-season

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sun May 19, 2019 12:20 am

JeremyG wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:35 pm
No way am I trading Ayton for Davis. Ayton just had a better rookie season than Davis. Who's to say he won't be a better player.
The potential is there, but the sure thing is better by definition. DA would need to turn into an almost different player (mentally, above all) to reach AD's level. I love having DA and don't have regrets despite Luka showing a ton, but Anthony Davis is an MVP candidate in his prime. Would be a little like not trading for Barkley because you love Horny. I get it, but you gotta.

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