Phx-Suns.Net

djy2j wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:19 pm

You can’t defend a move like this when you counter acting move is acquiring Baynes to eat up some of the cap space you gained by giving up Warren. It’s a level of stupidity that I didn’t think Jones had in him.

Agreed. We didn’t need a mediocre point guard like Ty Jerome that badly, just so we could say we finally drafted a point guard in the first round.

AND we gave up an asset—the Milwaukee pick—which could have been used in a bigger trade down the line!!

Just to be clear, Ty Jerome is not a point guard. I don't care what ESPN says.

I also don't expect him to be a point guard on the Suns. He's a poor mans Booker who I hope will occasionally get hot off the bench for 20+ points every couple of weeks.

Wow. They managed to trade our #32 pick for three, THREE, future second-round picks. What a clear as day example of the failure of our front office. This is why you don't hire inexperienced scrubs who have barely been out of the league a few years to coach or GM your team for you. You get what you pay for.

Not sure what you guys thought we were getting for TJ. You can talk about his scoring and his "value" but we had no leverage and he's a "luxury" type of player - not a necessity but a nice scorer to have.

We didn't take back any salary so for Sarver that's a W right there.

Problem is we squandered any trade leverage we had by trading the most valuable trade asset we were making available by selling for pennies on the dollar and we had to give a pick to do so. Before he got hurt they were talking about TJ as a fringe All Star. You don’t just give guys like that away.

Now other teams know our cards and don’t have to give anything for Josh Jackson, Okobo, Melton because if they want any of those guys they can just wait til we buy them out. We’re incredibly fucked right now

djy2j wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:36 am

Problem is we squandered any trade leverage we had by trading the most valuable trade asset we were making available by selling for pennies on the dollar and we had to give a pick to do so. Before he got hurt they were talking about TJ as a fringe All Star. You don’t just give guys like that away.

Now other teams know our cards and don’t have to give anything for Josh Jackson, Okobo, Melton because if they want any of those guys they can just wait til we buy them out. We’re incredibly fucked right now

I don't remember anyone ever saying that TJ was a fringe all-star. I don't think EJ saying he should be in the 3 point contest counts.

And maybe that was the going rate for him? Seems most teams are trying to clear cap space.

It is all very disappointing, for sure.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:29 am

Not sure what you guys thought we were getting for TJ. You can talk about his scoring and his "value" but we had no leverage and he's a "luxury" type of player - not a necessity but a nice scorer to have.

We didn't take back any salary so for Sarver that's a W right there.

Just the fact that a team took him into his cap space without giving up anything means he clearly has positive value. Otherwise nobody touches a contract without sending out dead weight. The salt in the wound is selling #32 for cash.

Here’s how that trade conversation had to go down:

Jones: Hey we want to trade you TJ Warren and we are interested in Aaron Holiday coming to us in the deal. We can include the #32 pick if that helps sweeten the deal.

Prichard: It does sweeten the deal but we will not be including Holiday in this trade.

Jones: It has been a pleasure doing business with you! Go Pacers!

No other way it could have gone down

djy2j wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:39 am

Here’s how that trade conversation had to go down:

Jones: Hey we want to trade you TJ Warren and we are interested in Aaron Holiday coming to us in the deal. We can include the #32 pick if that helps sweeten the deal.

Prichard: It does sweeten the deal but we will not be including Holiday in this trade.

Jones: It has been a pleasure doing business with you! Go Pacers!

No other way it could have gone down

I am assuming that the Pacers were one of the only teams that were willing to take on a 36M contract without giving anything back.

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm

I am assuming that the Pacers were one of the only teams that were willing to take on a 36M contract without giving anything back.

They absolutely were, obviously. But if a player is not an asset, you don't take him into your cap space without more compensation than #32. They even sent PHX, which can be understood like the Suns just sold the pick to IND.

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm

I am assuming that the Pacers were one of the only teams that were willing to take on a 36M contract without giving anything back.

They absolutely were, obviously. But if a player is not an asset, you don't take him into your cap space without more compensation than #32. They even sent PHX, which can be understood like the Suns just sold the pick to IND.

I didn't follow. Are you saying that IND shouldn't have traded for him? Or that we should have kept shopping him for a better deal, and be prepared to keep him if that was the best one?

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:27 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm

I am assuming that the Pacers were one of the only teams that were willing to take on a 36M contract without giving anything back.

They absolutely were, obviously. But if a player is not an asset, you don't take him into your cap space without more compensation than #32. They even sent PHX, which can be understood like the Suns just sold the pick to IND.

I didn't follow. Are you saying that IND shouldn't have traded for him? Or that we should have kept shopping him for a better deal, and be prepared to keep him if that was the best one?

I am just assessing wether Warren had positive value or not. Of ocurse IND should go ahead and trade nothing for him. But from our perspective, it makes little sense considering they added half his salary in Baynes and #24. Cap space would be the only angle you could sell me to plain dump him, but then you go and undo those gains.

Again, not trading for Meth would have added $5M in flexibility. MIA still laughs.

Bottom line, all this juggling is just inefficient, and the judgement decisions on prospects are pretty questionable.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:34 pm

Just to be clear, Ty Jerome is not a point guard. I don't care what ESPN says.

I also don't expect him to be a point guard on the Suns. He's a poor mans Booker

Wow. Why do you think that?

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm

I am assuming that the Pacers were one of the only teams that were willing to take on a 36M contract without giving anything back.

Citing the balance of his contract is misleading. He makes $10-12 million a year. That is midlevel money, far from a huge financial commitment, especially for someone as young and talented as Warren.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:48 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:10 pm

I am assuming that the Pacers were one of the only teams that were willing to take on a 36M contract without giving anything back.

Citing the balance of his contract is misleading. He makes $10-12 million a year. That is midlevel money, far from a huge financial commitment, especially for someone as young and talented as Warren.

Pelton was on the Burns and Gambo show and thought the compensation was understandable. I don’t necessarily agree, but he said Warren probably would get the full MLE in this market and is overpaid about 5 million dollars over the total length of the contract. That’s about the going rate of pick 32.

I do think Warren will prove to be worth his salary playing for a playoff team.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:27 pm

...is overpaid about 5 million dollars over the total length of the contract. That’s about the going rate of pick 32.

Are you dividing the $5 mil over the course of the remaining 3 years to arrive at "the going rate"?

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:35 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:27 pm

...is overpaid about 5 million dollars over the total length of the contract. That’s about the going rate of pick 32.

Are you dividing the $5 mil over the course of the remaining 3 years to arrive at "the going rate"?

No, 5 million total. That’s what Cavs paid for pick 30, plus included future 2nd’s

Are you sure? The max cash a team could spend in a trade was $3 million. Did this change? And Golden State bought their second rounder, I think it was #44, for something like 1.4 million.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:48 pm

Are you sure? The max cash a team could spend in a trade was $3 million. Did this change? And Golden State bought their second rounder, I think it was #44, for something like 1.4 million.

I’m pretty sure. I remember someone making a big deal at how much Cleveland spent. I’ll have to double check though.

I'm curious about something. What do the Suns do with the cash they got in this trade? Do they open up a savings account? Put it into a Roth IRA? Save it for a day when they want to buy a draft pick themselves?