Phx-Suns.Net

I can't even muster a grade. I'm not even mad. I'm just sad. It's really sad. And it's baffling. Sarver's inability to find competent front office personnel is absolutely incredible.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:12 pm

I can't even muster a grade. I'm not even mad. I'm just sad. It's really sad. And it's baffling. Sarver's inability to find competent front office personnel is absolutely incredible.

James Jones isn't a finished product. Far from it. I hope he continues to grow as a GM. I don't think he's planning to take 23-year-old rookies for the rest of his tenure. I understand why he did this time. Let's see how it plays out before we cry in our beer.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:47 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:12 pm

I can't even muster a grade. I'm not even mad. I'm just sad. It's really sad. And it's baffling. Sarver's inability to find competent front office personnel is absolutely incredible.

James Jones isn't a finished product. Far from it. I hope he continues to grow as a GM. I don't think he's planning to take 23-year-old rookies for the rest of his tenure. I understand why he did this time. Let's see how it plays out before we cry in our beer.

I agree. I understand having these reactionary rants. I had my own, but the plan kind of starts to make sense when you step back and look at it sideways. Between James telling us his focus is mostly going to be free agency, and acting like he's finished already and the sky is falling is unhelpful. Go ahead rant away. I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong either.

I get Lance Blanks vibes from some of the things he says.

You can justify Jones' player selection if you want, but his asset management has been terrible.

n4th4n wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:49 pm

You can justify Jones' player selection if you want, but his asset management has been terrible.

Yeah, he got taken advantage of a bit. I think that Bowers was helping, but everyone knew what they were trying to do and weren't exactly helpful.

n4th4n wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:49 pm

You can justify Jones' player selection if you want, but his asset management has been terrible.

Ya, this is the hard thing to explain away. Cam Johnson being their guy is one thing, but trade down 10 spots and get him.

I’d be really curious to know the timing of everything. Had they been talking with Minny for awhile? Did they know they might be picking 11? Had they targeted Cam all along or did their main target get taken? Gambo said to watch for Jaxon Hayes in a trade down...maybe a better prospect, but I actually would have been more confused by that selection.

Did they try to trade back again? Perhaps they couldn’t find a deal and just decided to take Cam because they didn’t like other prospects in that range.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:10 pm

n4th4n wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:49 pm

You can justify Jones' player selection if you want, but his asset management has been terrible.

Yeah, he got taken advantage of a bit. I think that Bowers was helping, but everyone knew what they were trying to do and weren't exactly helpful.

We really need to hire some scouts. I’ve heard it pointed out on a few podcasts, but it seems like we were only interested in ACC players. We drafted Cam Johnson and Ty Jerome and we’re linked to DeAndre Hunter and Coby White. Jarrett Culver was another player we were linked to and while not ACC, he had a long tournament run.

I really think we just had very limited intel on a lot of players. There was a report that we didn’t even scout Garland. No chance we were going to take Sekou Doumboya. We didn’t have international scouts.

Get some scouts, then James Jones can tell them what he’s looking for and they can create draft boards with that in mind, but we need evaluations on everyone in the draft. We had Cam 11th on our board because we probably didn’t have evaluations on 75% of the people who went after him in round 1.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:52 pm

Between James telling us his focus is mostly going to be free agency, and acting like he's finished already and the sky is falling is unhelpful. Go ahead rant away.

Free agency doesn't have anything to do with drafting well. There isn't a rule against pursuing free agents AND making smart draft selections. There isn't a free agent acquisition that necessitates taking Cameron Johnson at 11. So I can't buy the whole "free agency will make everything better" angle you're selling.

Also, I'm not acting like he is already finished. Draft night is finished. And that is what I was commenting on.

And how on earth am I being hit with hackneyed and lazy "sky is falling" dismissive take when I was one of the few that posted in depth why Saric was such a good acquisition?

But this is how it goes here, and no matter how long things remain the same, some will continue to do the same thing. Every offseason for nearly 10 years now. The Suns do something stupid. Posters react negatively. The self-proclaimed optimists fire back with a "sky-is-falling" quip. Sigh.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:32 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:00 am

Cam and Ty are two of the most nba ready prospects in the draft.

Ty isn't NBA ready if he can't play at the NBA level.

And in general, being in your early 20s doesn't mean that you are NBA-ready, just like being 18 or 19 doesn't automatically mean you have upside or potential.

INF, I haven't seen your overall take on our draft. Apologies if I've missed it. What do you think?

I shouldn't have answered. Where was Admiral Ackbar when I needed him?

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:58 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:32 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:00 am

Cam and Ty are two of the most nba ready prospects in the draft.

Ty isn't NBA ready if he can't play at the NBA level.

And in general, being in your early 20s doesn't mean that you are NBA-ready, just like being 18 or 19 doesn't automatically mean you have upside or potential.

INF, I haven't seen your overall take on our draft. Apologies if I've missed it. What do you think?

I shouldn't have answered. Where was Admiral Ackbar when I needed him?

Relax, INF. Everybody here respects your opinion and we appreciate you giving it.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:55 pm

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:52 pm

Between James telling us his focus is mostly going to be free agency, and acting like he's finished already and the sky is falling is unhelpful. Go ahead rant away.

Free agency doesn't have anything to do with drafting well. There isn't a rule against pursuing free agents AND making smart draft selections. There isn't a free agent acquisition that necessitates taking Cameron Johnson at 11. So I can't buy the whole "free agency will make everything better" angle you're selling.

Also, I'm not acting like he is already finished. Draft night is finished. And that is what I was commenting on.

Exactly.

We'll see what happens with Saric on offense, but I am a little surprised that you don't see a problem on defense and the glass. Contract year too.

It's not that I don't see it, I just think his pluses outweigh his minuses. Saric is a better rebounder than Oubre and Warren, so that's an improvement. Plus, Ayton has the potential to be a top 3 rebounder in the league.

Defense is a different story. With the acquisitions of Bridges and Oubre, I thought Jones was going to put an emphasis on 2-way ability. Thursday night suggests the opposite. So who knows.

I'm not worried about the contract. He has a good track record in Philly, and this is a test drive for us. If he isn't good,don't hesitate to let him walk. But if he is good, we shouldn't have trouble retaining him; teams have become more reluctant when it comes to pursuing other teams' restricted free agents.

Better defensive rebounding than Oubre or Warren don't really mean much, and weakness near the rim makes me extremely unconfortable, but yeah, we'll see. At least his ability as a playmaking forward is undeniable. He is also a decent 3pt shooter for a PF but has yet to have a 40% season (career 35%). And he is a competitor, that's an underrated plus.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:13 pm

I get L___e B____s vibes from some of the things he says.

I was just thinking that the other day. Jones and Beyers remind me a lot of the old "Blabby" (Blanks/Babby) combo from the bad old days. That combo got us the Hedo/Childress/Warrick nightmare offseason.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:38 am

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:13 pm

I get L___e B____s vibes from some of the things he says.

I was just thinking that the other day. Jones and Beyers remind me a lot of the old "Blabby" (B____s/Babby) combo from the bad old days. That combo got us the H**o/C*******s/Warrick nightmare offseason.

Let’s not lay that on them yet. They need some consistency over time to get that label.

Who would you rather have: Casey Jacobsen or Cam Johnson?

Democritus wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:57 am

Who would you rather have: Casey Jacobsen or Cam Johnson?

I see Cam Johnson as a Wesley Person clone.

The scouting stuff is concerning and I heard the pod where they went off about our draft prep, or lack thereof, and only scouting one conference, maybe not doing homework on guys they should've been looking at. But along with scouting players also comes gathering info on other teams, who they're interested in, knowing player projections. I think taking Johnson at 11 showed a serious lack of knowledge of all the prospects and where they were slotted to go. I'm all about "take your guy if he's there" but this was a clear reach. And really, anyone who knows the draft knows that Jrs and Srs and older players typically go mid-late first round and 2nd round. If wanted older, more polished players, we could've traded back again into the 20s and taken Cam and TyJerome just the same. Clarke too. That's not "hindsight is 20/20", that's knowing the draft.

Also, neither here nor there, but if you want to feel worse about the '16 draft with Bender and Chriss, consider we traded the guy we're looking for (and tried drafting in Jerome) when we gave Sacramento Bogdanovic.