Free Agent Targets
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
Thinking Payton...too much history, fine...but think his numbers speak elsewise...but ok.
Could we be so bold as to take a shot at Russell?
Could we be so bold as to take a shot at Russell?
Last edited by Vladimir_Taltos on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
Ok...refocus...since everybody has a hard on against Elfrid...than to me the only thing that saved this is if they pull a rabbit and land Russell...some attitude is my worry...but maybe we need that...
Last edited by Vladimir_Taltos on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
Ribbit
Last edited by Vladimir_Taltos on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
- specialsauce
- Posts: 7550
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
A+ based on landing Payton ???
I’ll take some of that good stuff to smoke
I’ll take some of that good stuff to smoke
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
Ribbit
Last edited by Vladimir_Taltos on Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Free Agent Targets
You're talking about Elfrid Payton? The guy we had here a couple seasons ago? The guy we were all ready for him to walk away? Idk what to tell you, but our standards have reached another new low if we think that is an A+ off-season.Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:11 amThis draft didn't make a lot of sense if they're not trying to position themselves for a top FA...and if we can swing it, Payton is our best move...if they could pull that off...A+ for the staff as an off season grade...
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
Ok...screw it...7APG isn't a step up...like that's worse than what we've been getting.
Than Russell it is...is that realistic is the larger question...
Looking for some hope...cause the names floating out there so far to me speak of another potential season of misery...that would suck...
Than Russell it is...is that realistic is the larger question...
Looking for some hope...cause the names floating out there so far to me speak of another potential season of misery...that would suck...
Re: Free Agent Targets
Russell is definitely a harder solution. Gambo continues to be adamant that they aren't going after Russell. Ashley Nevel continues to say they are going to do something big, but I have no idea what that means.
I think they split the money on a pf and pg, and go for Vonleh and Satoransky. They would both fit the shooters profile that they are looking for.
I think they split the money on a pf and pg, and go for Vonleh and Satoransky. They would both fit the shooters profile that they are looking for.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Re: Free Agent Targets
This author is lazy. He's just going down the list of the top FA PGs available for any team.Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:01 amhttps://valleyofthesuns.com/2019/06/20/ ... enix-suns/
"Be Legendary."
Re: Free Agent Targets
We've been talking about Russell for a long time. Many here think it's happening. He is best buds with Booker.Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:03 amOk...refocus...since everybody has a hard on against Elfrid...than to me the only thing that saved this is if they pull a rabbit and land Russell...some attitude is my worry...but maybe we need that...
"Be Legendary."
- Vladimir_Taltos
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm
Re: Free Agent Targets
Hope you're right...cause elsewise...ugh...Superbone wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:35 amWe've been talking about Russell for a long time. Many here think it's happening. He is best buds with Booker.Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:03 amOk...refocus...since everybody has a hard on against Elfrid...than to me the only thing that saved this is if they pull a rabbit and land Russell...some attitude is my worry...but maybe we need that...
Re: Free Agent Targets
Alright, I did an in depth statistical study of free agent point guards. I figure we’re looking for 3 things in a pg. Defense, Shooting, Playmaking. I ranked the top 15 in 3 categories: Defensive RPM, TS%, and A/TO ratio. Then I gave 15 points for a first place finish, down to 1 point for a 15th place finish and added it up to find our perfect target. Obviously not perfect, but it was interesting.
1. Pat Beverley- 34 - Finishes top 7 in all 3 categories
2. Tomas Satoransky - 29 - Top 10 in all 3 categories
3. Cory Joseph - 28 - Finishes 2nd in defense and A/TO
4. Darren Collison - 27 - Top 5 in TS and A/TO
5. Tyus Jones - 25 - 1st in A/TO and 6th defensively
6. Malcolm Brogdon - 22 - 1st in TS%
7. Alex Caruso - 22 - Top 5 shooter and defender
8. George Hill - 20 - Top Defender
9. Seth Curry - 19 - Shooting
10. Delon Wright - 18
11. Terry Rozier - 16
12. Ricky Rubio - 12
13. Quinn Cook - 10
14. Jerian Grant - 8
15. Jeremy Lin - 8
16. JJ Barea - 8
17. Derrick Rose - 7
18. Ish Smith - 7
19. Trey Burke - 6
20. D’Angelo Russell - 4
21. Shabazz Napier - 4
22. Rajon Rondo - 3
23. Tyler Johnson - 2
24. Elfrid Payton - 2
25. Emmanuel Mudiay - 1
Isaiah Thomas, Nando De Colo, Devin Harris, and Jamal Crawford were not top 15 in any category. I used 2013 numbers for De Colo, so probably not accurate.
After this, I’m less against Cory Joseph, though he does need to shoot better.
Some of the A/TO ratios are probably skewed because the player is asked to create less. Guys like Rubio and Russell score low because they turn the ball over a lot.
I still really like Collison, but I guess he doesn’t want to play here. Beverley is the top guy, but I think he’ll be in high demand.
Satoransky feels like the smart play. Tyus Jones could be interesting as well, needs to shoot though. George Hill is a sleeper as well.
Curry, Mudiay, Caruso, Lin, and IT had A/TO ratios under 2 and I’ll eliminate them as possibilities.
Barea, Jones, Joseph, Smith, IT, and Rondo had TS% under .500, I’d eliminate them, but Jones and Joseph scores high enough in the other two categories, that they may be worth considering. The others are gone.
Crawford, Harris, Cook, McConnell, Mudiay, Rose, Burke, Lin, Rondo, and Payton are under -1 DRPM and should be eliminated.
One guy I haven’t wanted to consider, but I’m not totally against anymore is Terry Rozier. He’s awful as a 2pt shooter, but he measures out well defensively and has a pretty good A/TO ratio. He shot 35% from 3 last year and has played well when given a starting role. Not my top guy, but I wouldn’t hate him as an option anymore.
1. Pat Beverley- 34 - Finishes top 7 in all 3 categories
2. Tomas Satoransky - 29 - Top 10 in all 3 categories
3. Cory Joseph - 28 - Finishes 2nd in defense and A/TO
4. Darren Collison - 27 - Top 5 in TS and A/TO
5. Tyus Jones - 25 - 1st in A/TO and 6th defensively
6. Malcolm Brogdon - 22 - 1st in TS%
7. Alex Caruso - 22 - Top 5 shooter and defender
8. George Hill - 20 - Top Defender
9. Seth Curry - 19 - Shooting
10. Delon Wright - 18
11. Terry Rozier - 16
12. Ricky Rubio - 12
13. Quinn Cook - 10
14. Jerian Grant - 8
15. Jeremy Lin - 8
16. JJ Barea - 8
17. Derrick Rose - 7
18. Ish Smith - 7
19. Trey Burke - 6
20. D’Angelo Russell - 4
21. Shabazz Napier - 4
22. Rajon Rondo - 3
23. Tyler Johnson - 2
24. Elfrid Payton - 2
25. Emmanuel Mudiay - 1
Isaiah Thomas, Nando De Colo, Devin Harris, and Jamal Crawford were not top 15 in any category. I used 2013 numbers for De Colo, so probably not accurate.
After this, I’m less against Cory Joseph, though he does need to shoot better.
Some of the A/TO ratios are probably skewed because the player is asked to create less. Guys like Rubio and Russell score low because they turn the ball over a lot.
I still really like Collison, but I guess he doesn’t want to play here. Beverley is the top guy, but I think he’ll be in high demand.
Satoransky feels like the smart play. Tyus Jones could be interesting as well, needs to shoot though. George Hill is a sleeper as well.
Curry, Mudiay, Caruso, Lin, and IT had A/TO ratios under 2 and I’ll eliminate them as possibilities.
Barea, Jones, Joseph, Smith, IT, and Rondo had TS% under .500, I’d eliminate them, but Jones and Joseph scores high enough in the other two categories, that they may be worth considering. The others are gone.
Crawford, Harris, Cook, McConnell, Mudiay, Rose, Burke, Lin, Rondo, and Payton are under -1 DRPM and should be eliminated.
One guy I haven’t wanted to consider, but I’m not totally against anymore is Terry Rozier. He’s awful as a 2pt shooter, but he measures out well defensively and has a pretty good A/TO ratio. He shot 35% from 3 last year and has played well when given a starting role. Not my top guy, but I wouldn’t hate him as an option anymore.
Re: Free Agent Targets
I don't like that list at all. I knocked Kaminsky on another thread. He actually finished the last month and a half decently, but he was playing big minutes; I don't think that will be available to him on a team trying to win.ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:41 amGambo's been reporting names like McGruder, Aminu, Kaminsky, ThadYoung, Joseph, Mike Scott. Nothing too exciting but solid, playable guys. I've always liked Ish Smith and would probably like him more than Joseph. But these are stopgap players just to hopefully make us respectable. More than anything, we gotta get someone who wants to play here.
I like Ish Smith too. He can't shoot, just like Rubio, but he should be cheaper. I would also look at Trey Burke.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.
Re: Free Agent Targets
My ranking:
1. Satoransky
2. Collison
3. Beverley
4. Rozier
5. Rubio
6. Joseph
7. Wright
8. Hill
9. Jones
10. Grant
I’m not ranking Brogdon or Russell right now because we don’t have the space for them.
1. Satoransky
2. Collison
3. Beverley
4. Rozier
5. Rubio
6. Joseph
7. Wright
8. Hill
9. Jones
10. Grant
I’m not ranking Brogdon or Russell right now because we don’t have the space for them.
Re: Free Agent Targets
He was better in New Orleans last season than he was with us. Still horrible defensively, but his shot is improving.In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:00 amYou're talking about Elfrid Payton? The guy we had here a couple seasons ago? The guy we were all ready for him to walk away? Idk what to tell you, but our standards have reached another new low if we think that is an A+ off-season.Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:11 amThis draft didn't make a lot of sense if they're not trying to position themselves for a top FA...and if we can swing it, Payton is our best move...if they could pull that off...A+ for the staff as an off season grade...
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Our biggest weaknesses in the frontcourt revolve around defense and athleticism. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Ayton gets better on D but with Saric and presumably Baynes as our other two bigs, we're still lacking some above the rim play and rim protection. None of the guys on that list are shotblocking threats or even known as great defenders. Would I want Aminu or Thad Young over Saric? Probably not, considering what it'd cost us and I doubt they'd want to leave playoff teams to come here. Mike Scott could be a decent backup off the bench just for insurance. Vonleh too. It really sucks about Holmes because he was ideal for us in that role I thought.
Re: Free Agent Targets
I think we still look at Ayton and imagine he’ll turn into the rim protector that we want. So we feel less pressure to address that need. We addressed the offensive fit instead. I’m ok with that. We’re not trying to contend next year, just get better and be competent.
I’m not sure why Gambo keeps saying we’re adding 3 free agents(PG, SG, PF) unless he’s talking about end of the bench guys.
Looking at our roster, we currently have 6 guards(Booker, Johnson, Melton, Okobo, Jerome, Lecque) 4 wings(Oubre, Bridges, Johnson, Jackson) and 4 bigs(Ayton, Saric, Baynes, Spalding) so we really only have 1 roster spot open right now.
I assume one of the pg’s will be gone, if not both, and Jackson should be gone. Spalding also needs to be waived if we want that cap space.
We have 4 starting spots locked down Booker, Oubre, Saric, Ayton. I’d assume Tyler, Bridges, and Baynes have pretty solid holds on rotation minutes. We didn’t draft Cam Johnson at 11 to not play him, so pencil some minutes in for him. We obviously need a pg in free agency, so pencil them in as the starter.
Does Ty Jerome play right away? I guess if Tyler Johnson plays all his minutes as backup pg and Ty Jerome rides the bench, we could have a few minutes at backup SG. I’d rather just give those minutes to a mix of Johnson, Johnson, and Bridges. Or just play Jerome. We’ll just need a 3rd string guard I guess.
All the C minutes are accounted for, as are the starting PF minutes, we just need backup 4 minutes and I fully expect about 18 minutes of small ball where Oubre or Bridges man the 4 spot. Again, a 3rd string big is all we need here.
So 15 spots
PG - FA, Tyler, Lecque
SG - Booker, Jerome, Melton?
SF - Oubre, Cam, King?
PF - Saric, Bridges, FA
C - Ayton, Baynes, Spalding
2 Way - Jared Harper, that Texas tech rookie we signed?
So I really only see 1 spot where we need to find a guy that should expect regular minutes. Unless we waive Tyler or don’t expect any minutes from Jerome.
I’m not sure why Gambo keeps saying we’re adding 3 free agents(PG, SG, PF) unless he’s talking about end of the bench guys.
Looking at our roster, we currently have 6 guards(Booker, Johnson, Melton, Okobo, Jerome, Lecque) 4 wings(Oubre, Bridges, Johnson, Jackson) and 4 bigs(Ayton, Saric, Baynes, Spalding) so we really only have 1 roster spot open right now.
I assume one of the pg’s will be gone, if not both, and Jackson should be gone. Spalding also needs to be waived if we want that cap space.
We have 4 starting spots locked down Booker, Oubre, Saric, Ayton. I’d assume Tyler, Bridges, and Baynes have pretty solid holds on rotation minutes. We didn’t draft Cam Johnson at 11 to not play him, so pencil some minutes in for him. We obviously need a pg in free agency, so pencil them in as the starter.
Does Ty Jerome play right away? I guess if Tyler Johnson plays all his minutes as backup pg and Ty Jerome rides the bench, we could have a few minutes at backup SG. I’d rather just give those minutes to a mix of Johnson, Johnson, and Bridges. Or just play Jerome. We’ll just need a 3rd string guard I guess.
All the C minutes are accounted for, as are the starting PF minutes, we just need backup 4 minutes and I fully expect about 18 minutes of small ball where Oubre or Bridges man the 4 spot. Again, a 3rd string big is all we need here.
So 15 spots
PG - FA, Tyler, Lecque
SG - Booker, Jerome, Melton?
SF - Oubre, Cam, King?
PF - Saric, Bridges, FA
C - Ayton, Baynes, Spalding
2 Way - Jared Harper, that Texas tech rookie we signed?
So I really only see 1 spot where we need to find a guy that should expect regular minutes. Unless we waive Tyler or don’t expect any minutes from Jerome.