Suns sign Rubio

[INFORMER]

I would like to keep Oubre, but the Suns spent a lotto pick on Cam Johnson, so he must be awesome. Plus there is Bridges. Those are two guys that can man the small forward position.

After what they gave Rubio, I don't see how they can agree to a reasonable deal. It will have to be $20-21 million per season.

[specialsauce]

Anyone who is excited that at least we’re better than last year has let Sarver win. How pathetic. Expect better. We could’ve had Brogdon and we walked away with Rubio

[carey]

Everyone pls relax now. We are better than last year which matters the most. We can worry next summer for improving further.

Not sure Vegas agrees. They have us at 25.5 wins right now.

[Shabazz]

Assist to turnover ratio is currently the most overrated stat on this board. What is Steph Curry’s A:TO ratio?

Some PGs have a strong A:TO ratio because they can’t be trusted to run an offense. Not because they can.

[Split T]

Everyone pls relax now. We are better than last year which matters the most. We can worry next summer for improving further.

Not sure Vegas agrees. They have us at 25.5 wins right now.

Well that is 6.5 wins better than last year

[Democritus]

Everyone pls relax now. We are better than last year which matters the most. We can worry next summer for improving further.

Not sure Vegas agrees. They have us at 25.5 wins right now.

F.ck Vegas, we have good, solid NBA players at every position. Plus a decent long term coach. 35 wins is our minimum next year.

[carey]

Everyone pls relax now. We are better than last year which matters the most. We can worry next summer for improving further.

Not sure Vegas agrees. They have us at 25.5 wins right now.

Well that is 6.5 wins better than last year

I think it's worse than what they predicted last summer, right? Wasn't it 26 and everyone was saying it was easy money?

[BookTheGoat]

Everyone pls relax now. We are better than last year which matters the most. We can worry next summer for improving further.

Not sure Vegas agrees. They have us at 25.5 wins right now.

Well that is 6.5 wins better than last year

I think it's worse than what they predicted last summer, right? Wasn't it 26 and everyone was saying it was easy money?

It was 28.5. I took the over. lol

This Rubio signing is so underwhelming. Can’t help but feel it’s an overpay and too long of a contract. Feels like it really limits our ceiling. Not that I expected a contender.

[carey]

It was 28.5. I took the over. lol

This Rubio signing is so underwhelming. Can’t help but feel it’s an overpay and too long of a contract. Feels like it really limits our ceiling. Not that I expected a contender.

So we supposedly upgraded the roster with two starters and we are 3 games worse in Vegas' eyes.

[Wally_West]

I don’t think Rubio is a “win now” move but a “not be depressingly shitty” move.

I think we got a fair shot to win 30 games but if everyone stay healthy and Booker and Ayton make big leaps, I wouldn’t be surprised at a 40 win season. Don’t think that will happen but I think a 10-12 game improvement is probably a decent bet.

[BookTheGoat]

Seems like every other team in the West got better too so we gained no ground with our marginal improvement.

[Drewsprocket]

Everyone pls relax now. We are better than last year which matters the most. We can worry next summer for improving further.

Not sure Vegas agrees. They have us at 25.5 wins right now.

Well that is 6.5 wins better than last year

I think it's worse than what they predicted last summer, right? Wasn't it 26 and everyone was saying it was easy money?

It was 28.5. I took the over.
This Rubio signing is so underwhelming. Can’t help but feel it’s an overpay and too long of a contract. Feels like it really limits our ceiling. Not that I expected a contender.

Rubio is the 17th highest paid point guard in the NBA. The link below shows the list of PG salaries. Rubio seems to be getting fair market contract— even if it feels high capwise. Dinwiddie and Vanfleet seem to be the only players on a real steal contract. Other better pgs are on their rookie deals.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/point-guard/

[virtual9mm]

Well, you seem to carry a pessimistic tune all the time. You come up with extremes to make a point and shut down optimism. It's trash to compare the Ariza signing with this offseason thus far.

1. Has my pessimism been proven wrong over the years? And let's not pretend that I hate things just for the sake of hating things.
2. I've already made the distinction that at least Rubio addresses a need, whereas Ariza did not. But the Ariza move, like this move, were both lauded as "win now!" moves while a blind eye was turned to why the move could/would be detrimental. It is also similar in that we spent ALL of the cap space on a player who was hardly in demand, and whose value seemingly didn't match the contract given.

I think that a "win now" move is the wrong way to look at it. It's a synergy move, getting Ayton an entry passer and moving Booker back to his primary SG role. The goal is to develop existing players more than to bring in a big name new player. And on that front -- I give the Suns an A.

Never mind that I'd be much, much happier if Rubio could hit a 3. But I think the observations I've seen are spot on. Utah didn't have the offense and shooting, so it was harder to hide Rubio. The Suns (now) have crazy shooting.

The main difference between McDonough and Jones is that McD maximized individual value to the detriment of the team. Jones maximizes team value even if we end up overpaying at an individual level -- or that's the hope. Let's see but I'm happy to see a complete roster position-wise for the first time since the Dragic era.

Thanks for bringing rationale to the discussion, v9. Signing Rubio this year is nothing like signing Ariza a year ago in my mind. It's team need this year versus some kind of analytics last year. Also, Ariza didn't turn out to be the great vet for a younger team that he was advertised as. I think Rubio will be much better in that regard after reading Mitchell's comments about him.

It was 28.5. I took the over. lol

This Rubio signing is so underwhelming. Can’t help but feel it’s an overpay and too long of a contract. Feels like it really limits our ceiling. Not that I expected a contender.

So we supposedly upgraded the roster with two starters and we are 3 games worse in Vegas' eyes.

I agree with both of you. The problem has never been a lack of pure talent or potential. It's been a problem of the sum of the parts being less than the parts themselves. I like what the front office has done to put a real team out there.

That being said, I think that Inf's complaint is that the Suns are putting a ceiling on the team's potential. This is a real concern for me, too. It would have been nice to get DAR. But looking at how he landed at GSW instead of MIN, I'm not sure this was ever in the cards.

I could see the team winning anywhere between 30 to 50 games next year, even despite the heavy competition out West. You've got proven starters at PG and PF, up-and-comers at SF, a proven star at SG (we'll see if this gets bumped up to superstar) and someone with massive potential at C who is poised to take the typical second-year jump. Not only that, but the pieces balance each other well and each of the starters has a well-defined role. Rubio distributes. Booker scores. Bridges/Oubre defends and hits the open shots, makes plays in broken play situations. Saric does everything you'd want from a stretch forward plus driving and distribution minus rim protection. Ayton is going to be a premier low-post scoring threat and will have a mid-range jumper. I hope they utilize him like a quasi-Garnett as someone to anchor a zone on occasion. Indeed, with the exception of Booker, everyone has substantial defensive ability or in Ayton's case, potential.

The only things missing are sharpshooting at PG and shot-blocking. These are substantial gaps for contenders but not things that would prevent the Suns from jumping into the middle of the pack despite the loaded West.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I was busy today and only got to read headlines. Once again, teams are overpaying to have something to show for this summer, you can feature cap space on billboards, right?

I was mildly happy for the Rubio signing, but really surprised by how bad the board have taken the news. We were praying to stay away from the Roziers, Josephs and such, and were cautious to max Russell, didn’t liked Brodgon at 20mill. We ended up with one player that address a need, excels at one skill directly related to his position, hold s his ground on defense and have one glaring hole in his game. To me, he was the most complementary piece out therefor both Ayton and Booker, only the price bothers me, but looking at the contracts being handed around, if $17 was the number to take him out of the market this early, so be it.

Of course we could have done better, specially when the imagination is the limit, but going $20mill for Brogdon or $27 for Russell would’ve been as criticized as this, by the same people that loves to whine about pretty much everything. We accomplished putting together the most balanced lineup and rotation in years, and actually have a coach capable to unleash the potential on our players, so I’m going with the optimistic side of this half fillled glass.

Now I’m only hoping (but won’t hold my breath for it) for Jones to cash in some favors and get Kevin Love in exchange for Tyler, Jackson, Melton and a Top5 protected first, and call it a good day. Go for it James!

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I think we liked Russell for less than the max, but he wasn’t game for that, and no matter how many billboards Devin would have payed, the FO was not going to go that high. Good for them, if he truly wanted to come here to play with his buddy, he could have compromised a little, kinda of what Irving and Durant are doing to make room for Jordan in the Nets.

Brogdon for the money he got, would probably have disappointed us pretty soon. Brogdon and Russell contracts would have capped off our future, the current situation, if we hang onto TJ would allow us to bring more help later on the season. Really hoping that’s the case, and like it better than stretching him and putting all the eggs into Russell or Brogdon’s basket. Perhaps going for Livingston with Jackson’s contract.

[Hermen]

I would give the Rubio signing a B. The money is a bit high, but the player makes sense. It's easier to wait out the first wave of FAs and get whoever is left on bargain deals when don't have specific needs. This team hopefully has some core pieces in place (Booker, Ayton, Bridges) and needs players that will help them develop.

Rubio should fit that role nicely. Can run the offense, good defender, and by all accounts a good locker room presence. Seems like he addresses the biggest needs of the team (and of this site ). I have little doubt Rubio is $10M/y better than Ish Smith, who I don't think does anything better than Rubio (yes, including shooting).

Hopefully, Oubre is only retained if they can agree on a team friendly deal. I would definitely not pay him more than Rubio, Bridges should be the focus anyway.

[SDC]

I would like to keep Oubre, but the Suns spent a lotto pick on Cam Johnson, so he must be awesome. Plus there is Bridges. Those are two guys that can man the small forward position.

After what they gave Rubio, I don't see how they can agree to a reasonable deal. It will have to be $20-21 million per season.

rubio is more impt to this team than oubre. rubio fills a void, oubre is just another small forward in the suns list of small forwards

[SDC]

cam johnson is the kind of player where experts will be praising houston or golden state for getting a steal if they select him at #30.

like mikal, cam's better off going to a playoff team with a pace and space system.

[Mori Chu]

This Rubio signing, plus the Saric trade, flips me to being happy overall with the offseason. I'm still not happy with the draft selection of Cam Johnson at #11, and I wish we had gotten anything for TJ Warren. But I do like Rubio and Saric a lot as new starters at PG and PF for us next year.

Many of you seem to be so down on Rubio. He's a phenomenal passer. He'll run our offense and will make other guys better, like Booker and Oubre and Bridges and especially Ayton, who sorely needs somebody who can throw him an entry pass or lob pass or run a P&R with him. I really think Rubio will have one of the top assist numbers in the league next year. His effect will be contagious, getting guys to run the floor harder, to look for more passing themselves. I think his veteran leadership will be great. And he's a darn good defender, so our perimeter defense won't be such a nightmare.

I know his shooting is bad. But he doesn't need to take a lot of outside shots. We can have shooters at most of the other positions when he's on the floor. And I would rather have a PG who can pass and defend than one who shoots but can't play D (unless he's at a god-like Nash or Curry level).

I read several posts saying that Rubio is "settling" and locking us in to mediocrity. I think the conventional wisdom here is a bit off. It's bad to be mired at the #8 seed for years, yes. But that's especially the case when you don't have young guys who are growing and getting better. The bad #8 seed is the one with veterans, the one that has peaked already. The one where if you run the team back, you'll get the #8 again and just be stuck there. If your team is full of youngs like ours, getting to the #8 seed is great! Then the next year your guys show up a year older and wiser, now with playoff experience under their belt. Now they can try to get the #6 or #5, and the year after that you're trying to get home-court in the first round.

If you wanted a shoot-first PG, whose shots did you want him to take away? Booker's? Ayton's? Oubre's? Saric's? Don't you want our PG expertly setting all of those guys up? Saric is going to hit so many open 3s next season. Booker won't be tired out by the 4th quarter from badly pretending to be a PG or a guy who can run an offense. Ayton will actually get the ball passed to him. Our offense is going to look sooooo much better next year.

I don't know if you guys can even remember how transformative it is to have a competent point guard running an NBA offense. We had absolute garbage at the PG position last year and it completely killed us as a team. The difference will be night and day.

As for the contract, I think it is utterly fair given the market we're in this week. Many other players got bigger and worse contracts, and I don't think his salary is unfair compared to other starting PGs in the league. It's only 3 years, too.

This is a great signing. I couldn't be happier. You will all see, this team is going to feel completely different next year. There will be actual positive energy around this franchise for once.

[Ring_Wanted]

Indy also gave up a first rounder and 2 seconds to get Brogdon.

Too rich for my blood.

Doesn't matter. They got their guy and looking around at the deals some other players got, it's actually a good proposition at $21.5M per. I would have loved it if Jones was able to pull it off.

As for Rubio, he cheks a number of boxes but is a terrible shot maker. By going after him, it seems we keep forgetting we were dead last in 3pt last season. It's like going after Saric at PF; Jones seems to be unaware of the fact that PHX was dead last in rebounding too.

At the end of the day, this is a sub-20 wins team that has added two mediocre/flawed starters, a couple of supposedly ready now rookie role players and has shuffled bench bigs. All that while spending a considerable amount of assets.

Absolutely underwhelming offseason so far, and it still remains to be seen how much they spend on Oubre and maybe even what kind of asset they need to give up to dump Jackson/Okobo/Melton.