NBA Summer League

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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In2ition
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:34 am

I do kind of feel like Rubio is going to have a little of a Nash like effect on the rest of the team, where he improves how they perform. This type of data, I don't think, is taken into account when figuring out how the team is going to do based on stats from the individuals in their particular situation last season. And, maybe it is, but Rubio's situation and the system he played in in Utah, really suppressed some of his strengths, imo.
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3rdside
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by 3rdside » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:45 am

Wiggins and his max contract is thanking his lucky stars he had Rubio by his side...I always said Nash was a statistics inflating genius* so there's that similarity.

*via pass-first style of play which, to state the obvious, has flow on effect to chemistry, in turn disproportionately impacting the W-L column upwards; a happy, selfless team is a winning team, at least during the regular season.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by 3rdside » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:54 am

And yeah, Utah mis-used him or he didn't have the right supporting cast or both, from what I've read.

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 am

They could have used one more shooter on the floor all the time with Rubio and Gobert. Mitchell was pretty good, and Ingles was very good, but having 2 other essentially non-shooters on the floor with Ricky didn't help matters. Also, they didn't have the best and quickest cutters, in another area that Ricky excels in finding.
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OE32
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by OE32 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:18 am

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 am
They could have used one more shooter on the floor all the time with Rubio and Gobert. Mitchell was pretty good, and Ingles was very good, but having 2 other essentially non-shooters on the floor with Ricky didn't help matters. Also, they didn't have the best and quickest cutters, in another area that Ricky excels in finding.
I think the bigger thing was Rubio's incompatibility with Gobert. Rubio's a guy whose talent is exploiting holes in a defense, as opposed to creating shots for others. Gobert's a roll man, no a post threat. With Rubio and Dario on the roster, I expect our problems making entry passes to Ayton will be greatly alleviated next season.

I worry a bit about Rubio's defense, and obviously the team's, next season. I know he's a plus defender overall, but much like Kidd, he's not a great one-on-one defender. And there's a big difference between having Favors and Gobert to back you up than having Ayton and Dario, much less Kaminsky and Baynes.

Our offense will have to really sizzle, a la the 7SOL days, for us to have a lot of success. I think we'll be better defensively simply by virtue of the reduced turnovers and higher FG% we should expect to see with this group. At this point, frankly, I'm just looking forward to competitive basketball.

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:41 am

OE32 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:18 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:10 am
They could have used one more shooter on the floor all the time with Rubio and Gobert. Mitchell was pretty good, and Ingles was very good, but having 2 other essentially non-shooters on the floor with Ricky didn't help matters. Also, they didn't have the best and quickest cutters, in another area that Ricky excels in finding.
I think the bigger thing was Rubio's incompatibility with Gobert. Rubio's a guy whose talent is exploiting holes in a defense, as opposed to creating shots for others. Gobert's a roll man, no a post threat. With Rubio and Dario on the roster, I expect our problems making entry passes to Ayton will be greatly alleviated next season.

I worry a bit about Rubio's defense, and obviously the team's, next season. I know he's a plus defender overall, but much like Kidd, he's not a great one-on-one defender. And there's a big difference between having Favors and Gobert to back you up than having Ayton and Dario, much less Kaminsky and Baynes.

Our offense will have to really sizzle, a la the 7SOL days, for us to have a lot of success. I think we'll be better defensively simply by virtue of the reduced turnovers and higher FG% we should expect to see with this group. At this point, frankly, I'm just looking forward to competitive basketball.
I think the only way that I can see the defense improving this year is the following and they are minimal changes:
1. Ayton improves his defense, being the defensive anchor. I'm not saying he's going to improve by leaps and bounds though.
2. The defensive rebounding should improve a little, which should mitigate more of the second chances that teams got when they pushed around our 3's trying to play the 4.
3. Being more competitive in every game, along with some of the offensive load taken off of Devin, gives him more energy and incentive to stay committed and focused on the defensive end.
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INFORMER
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by INFORMER » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:15 pm

3rdside wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 pm
How many times do we say ‘pick your guy no matter where you’re drafting’?

Often.

Jones had the balls to do it with Cam and I’m totally fine with it on paper.
I think just about any bad decision can be explained away with "balls" excuse.
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

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Superbone
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Superbone » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:13 pm

We are the freaking stars of the NBA Summer League:

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by 3rdside » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:32 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:15 pm
3rdside wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 pm
How many times do we say ‘pick your guy no matter where you’re drafting’?

Often.

Jones had the balls to do it with Cam and I’m totally fine with it on paper.
I think just about any bad decision can be explained away with "balls" excuse.
Agreed but if it's a good decision then it's ballsy, seeing how the whole world had him going no higher than 17, at best, and mainly in the 20's.

This assumes the FO read mocks (they might not, for the same reason Daryl Morey bans nicknames when scouting, as detailed in the Undoing Project, excerpt below and a great read if not read already, but that would be hard to do):

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/book ... pr-consent

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by 3rdside » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:38 am

The reasonably recent ballsy move where mocks vs reality were vastly different but the decision didn't pay off was the Bucks drafting Thon Maker...the decision made by same GM (I think) who drafted Giannis.

It's a fine line.

So, I guess, the ballsy vs stupid argument could be conflated with the talent vs luck argument.

For Ryan McD I'm comfortable saying no balls, or at least none that we can judge him on (so no balls in a different context), and all luck (plenty had Booker at 13).

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:08 am

3rdside wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:38 am
For Ryan McD I'm comfortable saying no balls, or at least none that we can judge him on (so no balls in a different context), and all luck (plenty had Booker at 13).
This makes no sense to me. McD made plenty of bad decisions. But how can someone say he had no "balls"? On what basis? He did several audacious things, such as trading away Goran Dragic, trading a valuable Lakers pick for Knight, and others. These were not necessarily good moves, but they took some guts to risk existing assets. This concept of luck vs balls is fallacious and a false dichotomy.

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ShelC
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by ShelC » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am

Yea I wouldn't say McD had no balls. I don't think he had big balls either, although the Chandler signing to try and get Aldridge was indeed ballsy (and backfired on him). I think he just suffered from a complete lack of feel for running and putting a team together.

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Superbone
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Superbone » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:22 pm

ShelC wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am
Yea I wouldn't say McD had no balls. I don't think he had big balls either, although the Chandler signing to try and get Aldridge was indeed ballsy (and backfired on him). I think he just suffered from a complete lack of feel for running and putting a team together.
Yep, he had the balls to make all those horrible team-ruining moves like signing extra alpha-dog point guards and tripling down on a glut at SF. And then going all-in on salon master Bledsoe.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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INFORMER
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by INFORMER » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 pm

Y'all nailed it. Ryan just needed to be smarter.
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

BlaCkAdDa
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by BlaCkAdDa » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:46 pm

Once our best player on court was Bledsoe.. We were doomed

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Superbone
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Superbone » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:20 pm

BlaCkAdDa wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:46 pm
Once our best player on court was Bledsoe.. We were doomed
That I agree with. I was so ready to be done with him after that prolonged free agency period with him and Rich Paul. Then we paid him 70 Mil and the rest is (a sad) history. <sigh>
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Shabazz
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Shabazz » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:15 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:22 pm
ShelC wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am
Yea I wouldn't say McD had no balls. I don't think he had big balls either, although the Chandler signing to try and get Aldridge was indeed ballsy (and backfired on him). I think he just suffered from a complete lack of feel for running and putting a team together.
Yep, he had the balls to make all those horrible team-ruining moves like signing extra alpha-dog point guards and tripling down on a glut at SF. And then going all-in on salon master Bledsoe.
Let's all just agree that McD had either medium-sized balls or one big ball and one small ball and leave it at that.

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JCSunsfan
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by JCSunsfan » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:36 pm

ShelC wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am
Yea I wouldn't say McD had no balls. I don't think he had big balls either, although the Chandler signing to try and get Aldridge was indeed ballsy (and backfired on him). I think he just suffered from a complete lack of feel for running and putting a team together.
Part of it was the different stages in the rebuilding process.

First stage: Gather assets.
Second stage: Find one or two stars.
Third stage: Build around those stars.
Fourth stage: Add the final piece.

McD could not shift from stage one to two. Its probably because he primarly has a scout's mentality. He was always on the lookout for individual players and comparing players to each other to determine who was best. He never really thought about building a team around the players that he had. Of course, he really did not get a chance to build around Ayton. He has a short leash to get a team built around Ayton and Booker, but clearly could not make the mental shift.

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Superbone
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Superbone » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:38 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:15 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:22 pm
ShelC wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am
Yea I wouldn't say McD had no balls. I don't think he had big balls either, although the Chandler signing to try and get Aldridge was indeed ballsy (and backfired on him). I think he just suffered from a complete lack of feel for running and putting a team together.
Yep, he had the balls to make all those horrible team-ruining moves like signing extra alpha-dog point guards and tripling down on a glut at SF. And then going all-in on salon master Bledsoe.
Let's all just agree that McD had either medium-sized balls or one big ball and one small ball and leave it at that.
:shock: Okay...
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Split T
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Re: NBA Summer League

Post by Split T » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:50 pm

To be fair, he appeared to be attempting to build around his stars last summer. It just took him a long time to get to that point and he did a poor job, although there’s a question on who was actually calling the shots.

Brings up a question, what would our summer have looked like last year if Jones was in charge? Doesn’t Doncic feel more like a Jones guy than Ayton?

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