Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:01 pm

Yeah, hopefully the team is up to the expectations

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Indy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:25 am

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:06 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:36 pm
Indy wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:22 am
Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:57 am
specialsauce wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:45 am


Old take man, get with the times it is what it is! Don’t bust out a stale chip!
Yeah, that was gross. Still trying to get that aftertaste out of my mouth.
This will go down as the new thing we talk about instead of Joe Johnson.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Indy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:27 am

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:49 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:29 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:45 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:56 am
Indy wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:35 am


Well TJ Warren was averaging 20 points per game for us before and it didn't impact the game at all. That is what I am worried about with Ayton. Getting 20 and 12 but having no impact would not be a good outcome. I hope that changes and see ways it certainly can, but not without him being aggressive. You see it in his FTA numbers, too. He only shot 2.7 free throws per game last year, even though he took over 12 shots a game. Other bigs on our team last year were much higher per FGA and per minute. On a per-minute basis, he shot 11th most FTA per game, while he was third highest in minutes and 2nd highest in FGAs.
He shot 0 FTs this preseason. That's mind boggling.
Not really. It’s obviously not ideal, but he played 3 games and only played half the games. If he’s going multiple games in the regular season, then I’ll consider it a problem.
So, why shouldn't he have had half the FTs?
He took 2.7 FTA per game last year. So 1.3 would be half. Over 3 games that would be 4 free throws. It’s mind boggling to you that he took 4 less free throws than expected?
He played ~60 minutes in the pre-season. I would think you should expect your 7-1, 250 pound center that is your #1 pick a year ago to get fouled while dunking at least once in 60 minutes.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by carey » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:18 am

Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:27 am

He played ~60 minutes in the pre-season. I would think you should expect your 7-1, 250 pound center that is your #1 pick a year ago to get fouled while dunking at least once in 60 minutes.
Yes, but are we saying it's his fault? I mean he might suck at drawing fouls but it also defies statistics to suggest he wasn't fouled several times during those 60 minutes. I don't know why he doesn't get calls but it's apparent that he doesn't.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by O_Gardino » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:59 am

He doesn't shoot when there are defenders close enough to foul him.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Democritus » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:36 am

The more I think the more I'm convinced that Mikal must start as our SF. Because I think that as a team we need Mikal's defense more than Kelly's offense.

I'm deeply worried that our Saric-Ayton frontcourt will fall apart defensively. I don't think that your 4 and 5 combination can be allowed to be so soft in this league.
Last edited by Democritus on Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Superbone » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:35 pm

carey wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:18 am
Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:27 am

He played ~60 minutes in the pre-season. I would think you should expect your 7-1, 250 pound center that is your #1 pick a year ago to get fouled while dunking at least once in 60 minutes.
Yes, but are we saying it's his fault? I mean he might suck at drawing fouls but it also defies statistics to suggest he wasn't fouled several times during those 60 minutes. I don't know why he doesn't get calls but it's apparent that he doesn't.
He was not aggressive. He was avoiding contact rather than welcoming it. Not many fouls are called when you're shooting fadeaways over smaller opponents. Yes, it was his fault.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Superbone » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:38 pm

Democritus wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:36 am
The more I think the more I'm convinced that Mikal must start as our SF. Because I think that as a team we need Mikal's defense more than Kelly' offense.

I'm deeply worried that our Saric-Ayton frontcourt will fall apart defensively. I don't think that your 4 and 5 combination can be allowed to be so soft in this league.
Monty should start pulling Ayton if he's not aggressive offensively and defensively. He needs to learn one way or the other. One of the first things that bothered me about Ayton was before he had played any NBA basketball and he was talking about being worried about getting his next contract. Just play aggressively and keep working on your game and it will happen naturally, big fella.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by In2ition » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:02 pm

carey wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:18 am
Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:27 am

He played ~60 minutes in the pre-season. I would think you should expect your 7-1, 250 pound center that is your #1 pick a year ago to get fouled while dunking at least once in 60 minutes.
Yes, but are we saying it's his fault? I mean he might suck at drawing fouls but it also defies statistics to suggest he wasn't fouled several times during those 60 minutes. I don't know why he doesn't get calls but it's apparent that he doesn't.
Maybe he's just really good at avoiding contact. lol
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by In2ition » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:05 pm

Democritus wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:36 am
The more I think the more I'm convinced that Mikal must start as our SF. Because I think that as a team we need Mikal's defense more than Kelly's offense.

I'm deeply worried that our Saric-Ayton frontcourt will fall apart defensively. I don't think that your 4 and 5 combination can be allowed to be so soft in this league.
It's a good thing that they have Baynes coming off the bench. I'm not saying that either are great defenders, but when you look at who the Suns played at PF last year, they got killed in the post by opposing PFs and on the boards. I think both of those improve this year and in turn the defense improves just by not allowing PFs to score at will and cutting down the number of offensive rebounds allowed. It's not a HUGE difference, but it might end up being a huge difference.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm

I'm worried about our starting PF right now. Baynes could be the best big man on the roster besides Ayton, which would put us in a really bad spot in the front court.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by In2ition » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:41 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm
I'm worried about our starting PF right now. Baynes could be the best big man on the roster besides Ayton, which would put us in a really bad spot in the front court.
I'm not that worried. Saric, even though he's young has been pretty good so far in his career. I think it's more likely that he improves than he regresses. I also think that Kaminsky is an underrated player. He's not great as a post defender and gets pushed around down there sometimes, but he's good in the post, he's a good passer, he can shoot and he does a good job relatively on the boards. All of that will continue to translate into the regular season. Besides, he did have a PER of 16.8 last season, which is above league average.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Indy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:00 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:41 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm
I'm worried about our starting PF right now. Baynes could be the best big man on the roster besides Ayton, which would put us in a really bad spot in the front court.
I'm not that worried. Saric, even though he's young has been pretty good so far in his career. I think it's more likely that he improves than he regresses. I also think that Kaminsky is an underrated player. He's not great as a post defender and gets pushed around down there sometimes, but he's good in the post, he's a good passer, he can shoot and he does a good job relatively on the boards. All of that will continue to translate into the regular season. Besides, he did have a PER of 16.8 last season, which is above league average.
We don't have a backup 4 on the roster. I expect us to try and play Aron and Ayton together. Frank seems like a back up 5. I expect Cam and Kelly to play a lot of 4 this season. I don't think that is good.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Superbone » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:15 pm

He may seem like he’s a center to you but Kaminsky is our backup 4.
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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by In2ition » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:21 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:15 pm
He may seem like he’s a center to you but Kaminsky is our backup 4.
Agreed. I think he's the backup 4 and he's the 3rd string 5 if needed.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by In2ition » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:23 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:00 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:41 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm
I'm worried about our starting PF right now. Baynes could be the best big man on the roster besides Ayton, which would put us in a really bad spot in the front court.
I'm not that worried. Saric, even though he's young has been pretty good so far in his career. I think it's more likely that he improves than he regresses. I also think that Kaminsky is an underrated player. He's not great as a post defender and gets pushed around down there sometimes, but he's good in the post, he's a good passer, he can shoot and he does a good job relatively on the boards. All of that will continue to translate into the regular season. Besides, he did have a PER of 16.8 last season, which is above league average.
We don't have a backup 4 on the roster. I expect us to try and play Aron and Ayton together. Frank seems like a back up 5. I expect Cam and Kelly to play a lot of 4 this season. I don't think that is good.
I keep hearing this hand wringing from a lot of Suns fans on here, especially when he was initially signed. Nothing he did in preseason feels like it was a fluke and not reproducible in the regular season, other than minutes on the court.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by Indy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:51 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:23 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:00 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:41 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm
I'm worried about our starting PF right now. Baynes could be the best big man on the roster besides Ayton, which would put us in a really bad spot in the front court.
I'm not that worried. Saric, even though he's young has been pretty good so far in his career. I think it's more likely that he improves than he regresses. I also think that Kaminsky is an underrated player. He's not great as a post defender and gets pushed around down there sometimes, but he's good in the post, he's a good passer, he can shoot and he does a good job relatively on the boards. All of that will continue to translate into the regular season. Besides, he did have a PER of 16.8 last season, which is above league average.
We don't have a backup 4 on the roster. I expect us to try and play Aron and Ayton together. Frank seems like a back up 5. I expect Cam and Kelly to play a lot of 4 this season. I don't think that is good.
I keep hearing this hand wringing from a lot of Suns fans on here, especially when he was initially signed. Nothing he did in preseason feels like it was a fluke and not reproducible in the regular season, other than minutes on the court.
Which player are you talking about?

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by In2ition » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:03 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:51 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:23 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:00 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:41 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:30 pm
I'm worried about our starting PF right now. Baynes could be the best big man on the roster besides Ayton, which would put us in a really bad spot in the front court.
I'm not that worried. Saric, even though he's young has been pretty good so far in his career. I think it's more likely that he improves than he regresses. I also think that Kaminsky is an underrated player. He's not great as a post defender and gets pushed around down there sometimes, but he's good in the post, he's a good passer, he can shoot and he does a good job relatively on the boards. All of that will continue to translate into the regular season. Besides, he did have a PER of 16.8 last season, which is above league average.
We don't have a backup 4 on the roster. I expect us to try and play Aron and Ayton together. Frank seems like a back up 5. I expect Cam and Kelly to play a lot of 4 this season. I don't think that is good.
I keep hearing this hand wringing from a lot of Suns fans on here, especially when he was initially signed. Nothing he did in preseason feels like it was a fluke and not reproducible in the regular season, other than minutes on the court.
Which player are you talking about?
Sorry, after rereading your post, it wasn't directly pointed at Kaminsky, which is who I was talking about.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by SDC » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:22 am

Cap wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:13 pm
Young rookie centers, ranked by free throw rate:

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                                                  
                                                   Crit                                                                         Tota                          Shoo
Rk                 Player  Season Age  Tm  Lg   MP  FTA  G GS  FG  FGA  2P  2PA 3P 3PA  FT FTA ORB DRB  TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS  FG%  2P%  3P% eFG%  FT%  TS%
1         Shaquille ONeal 1992-93  20 ORL NBA 3071 11.7 81 81 733 1304 733 1302  0   2 427 721 342 780 1122 152  60 286 307 321 1893 .562 .563 .000 .562 .592 .584
2           Steven Hunter 2001-02  20 ORL NBA  516  9.4 53 21  67  147  67  147  0   0  55  94  40  57   97   5   5  43  16  81  189 .456      .456 .456 .585 .502
3          Tyson Chandler 2001-02  19 CHI NBA 1389  8.5 71 31 151  304 151  304  0   0 134 222 114 229  343  54  28  93  99 179  436 .497      .497 .497 .604 .543
4           Dwight Howard 2004-05  19 ORL NBA 2670  7.8 82 82 352  677 352  675  0   2 277 413 287 536  823  75  77 136 165 232  981 .520 .521 .000 .520 .671 .571
5              Eddy Curry 2001-02  19 CHI NBA 1150  7.4 72 31 189  377 189  377  0   0 105 160 111 161  272  25  16  53  69 173  483 .501      .501 .501 .656 .540
6          DeAndre Jordan 2008-09  20 LAC NBA  771  7.4 53 13  93  147  93  147  0   0  42 109  72 165  237  11  11  59  41  96  228 .633      .633 .633 .385 .585
7           Zaza Pachulia 2003-04  19 ORL NBA  664  7.2 59  2  68  175  68  175  0   0  58  90  69 105  174  13  21  12  34  87  194 .389      .389 .389 .644 .452
8          Andre Drummond 2012-13  19 DET NBA 1243  6.8 60 10 208  342 207  340  1   2  59 159 169 288  457  30  59  95  57 144  476 .608 .609 .500 .610 .371 .578
9         Jonas Valaninas 2012-13  20 TOR NBA 1482  6.6 62 57 204  366 204  366  0   0 146 185 121 251  372  45  17  78  94 188  554 .557      .557 .557 .789 .619
10            Enes Kanter 2011-12  19 UTA NBA  874  6.3 66  0 117  236 117  235  0   1  70 105 107 171  278   8  18  23  54  87  304 .496 .498 .000 .496 .667 .539
11            Jusuf Nurki 2014-15  20 DEN NBA 1103  6.0 62 27 171  383 171  381  0   2  84 132 125 257  382  50  52  68  86 207  426 .446 .449 .000 .446 .636 .483
12         Dalibor Bagari 2000-01  20 CHI NBA  259  5.8 35  0  17   65  17   64  0   1  13  28  22  34   56  10   9  16  21  44   47 .262 .266 .000 .262 .464 .304
13           Steven Adams 2013-14  20 OKC NBA 1197  5.7 81 20  93  185  93  185  0   0  79 136 142 190  332  43  40  57  71 203  265 .503      .503 .503 .581 .541
14            Robin Lopez 2008-09  20 PHO NBA  614  5.5 60  7  71  137  71  136  0   1  47  68  52  66  118   8  11  41  28  97  189 .518 .522 .000 .518 .691 .566
15          Andris Biedri 2004-05  18 GSW NBA  384  5.4 30  1  45   78  45   77  0   1  19  40  47  71  118  12  12  24  12  87  109 .577 .584 .000 .577 .475 .570
16         Wendell Carter 2018-19  19 CHI NBA 1110  4.9 44 44 180  371 174  339  6  32  89 112  87 220  307  78  26  58  65 152  455 .485 .513 .188 .493 .795 .541
17      Mitchell Robinson 2018-19  20 NYK NBA 1360  4.8 66 19 202  291 202  291  0   0  81 135 177 246  423  37  52 161  35 217  485 .694      .694 .694 .600 .692
18           Jeremy Tyler 2011-12  20 GSW NBA  568  4.8 42 23  88  209  88  208  0   1  29  52  54  86  140  16  16  20  36  84  205 .421 .423 .000 .421 .558 .442
19           Kosta Koufos 2008-09  19 UTA NBA  565  4.7 48  7  94  185  94  185  0   0  36  51  50  88  138  20  12  31  26  70  224 .508      .508 .508 .706 .540
20            Brook Lopez 2008-09  20 NJN NBA 2501  4.6 82 75 448  844 448  842  0   2 172 217 225 440  665  86  44 151 147 257 1068 .531 .532 .000 .531 .793 .568
21               Alex Len 2013-14  20 PHO NBA  362  4.3 42  3  33   78  33   78  0   0  20  31  39  60   99   4   4  18  26  68   86 .423      .423 .423 .645 .469
22           Andrew Bynum 2005-06  18 LAL NBA  338  4.2 46  0  33   82  33   82  0   0   8  27  34  46   80   9   4  22  17  56   74 .402      .402 .402 .296 .394
23          Deandre Ayton 2018-19  20 PHO NBA 2183  4.1 71 70 509  870 509  866  0   4 141 189 223 506  729 125  61  67 126 209 1159 .585 .588 .000 .585 .746 .608
24          Mohamed Bamba 2018-19  20 ORL NBA  766  4.0 47  1 117  243  96  173 21  70  37  63  64 169  233  39  13  64  43 102  292 .481 .555 .300 .525 .587 .539
25            Ivica Zubac 2016-17  19 LAL NBA  609  3.9 38 11 126  238 126  235  0   3  32  49  41 118  159  30  14  33  30  66  284 .529 .536 .000 .529 .653 .547
26            Johan Petro 2005-06  20 SEA NBA 1282  3.1 68 41 153  300 153  300  0   0  47  75 109 187  296  15  25  51  60 213  353 .510      .510 .510 .627 .530
27           Maciej Lampe 2003-04  18 PHO NBA  224  3.0 21  0  43   88  43   84  0   4  10  13   9  35   44   9   3   3  15  28   96 .489 .512 .000 .489 .769 .512
28        Olumide Oyedeji 2000-01  19 SEA NBA  221  2.8 30  1  18   37  18   37  0   0   9  12  24  43   67   2   7  10  11  40   45 .486      .486 .486 .750 .532
29   Georgios Papagiannis 2016-17  19 SAC NBA  355  2.0 22  0  56  102  56  100  0   2  12  14  24  62   86  20   3  17  24  44  124 .549 .560 .000 .549 .857 .573
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 10/18/2019.

Pretty pathetic.
teams are deliberately fouling those guys compared to ayton.

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Re: Oubre or Mikal Bridges as starting small forward?

Post by SDC » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:31 am

Cameron Johnson should start ahead of Kelly Oubre for the Phoenix Suns

https://valleyofthesuns.com/2019/10/19/ ... enix-suns/

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