Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

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Superbone
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Superbone » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:50 pm

We don't know the circumstances so it's all speculation at this point. If a trainer tells me to take something, I want to know the what and the why but after that, I just have to take his word for it. You do have a good point about outside trainers.
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In2ition
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by In2ition » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:50 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:40 pm
The more this story sits, the more I find the excuse frustrating. "I didn't know what I put in my body." Yeah, sure. You're a pro athlete and you're just stuffing magic beans in your mouth without asking any questions? Or even if he *did* not know, why is he hiring people to give him random supplements who are so unscrupulous?

25 games is a ton, but I just don't see how anybody could claim that this sort of thing is an accident. If 25 games is what the CBA says, what cause is there for leniency or reducing the sentence? Why even put that in the CBA if they aren't going to enforce it?
If it was taken unknowningly(as he took it because his trainer gave it to him) and it wasn't for masking something else(which subsequent tests say there is no trace of anything), then according to the CBA, it could get reduced and/or dismissed. I'm obviously hoping that's the case, but not holding my breath.
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Uncle_Gene
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Uncle_Gene » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:50 pm

When I first saw this, I was completely disappointed. How could DeAndre Ayton mess up like this when the Suns are trying to turn things around? Hopefully the suspension gets reduced and he's able to come back sooner.
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:44 am

Has anyone heard if this thing really is going to arbitration? I expected to hear more details about that, but now I'm wondering if the players association will change their minds after doing their own research.
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Indy
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Indy » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm

For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.

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Cap
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Cap » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:25 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm
For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.
The diuretic only makes urine test clean. If the follow up tests are of blood draws, the diuretic won’t hide anything.
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Indy
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Indy » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 pm

Cap wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:25 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm
For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.
The diuretic only makes urine test clean. If the follow up tests are of blood draws, the diuretic won’t hide anything.
I didn't hear about any additional blood draws. Usually you take two samples (or split the sample you take into two before testing). That way you can confirm your test, or test specifically for other chemicals your first test doesn't cover. Did they say they took blood?

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by AmareIsGod » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:17 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 pm
Cap wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:25 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm
For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.
The diuretic only makes urine test clean. If the follow up tests are of blood draws, the diuretic won’t hide anything.
I didn't hear about any additional blood draws. Usually you take two samples (or split the sample you take into two before testing). That way you can confirm your test, or test specifically for other chemicals your first test doesn't cover. Did they say they took blood?
Never heard anything about a blood sample either.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Mori Chu
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:29 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm
For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.
There is some kind of "obstruction of justice" analogy here. Obstruction is punished harshly precisely because it prevents enforcement from catching the misdeed being obstructed.

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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by JeremyG » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:02 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:29 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm
For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.
There is some kind of "obstruction of justice" analogy here. Obstruction is punished harshly precisely because it prevents enforcement from catching the misdeed being obstructed.
But according to our attorney general, if there is no proof that a misdeed ever occurred then there can be no obstruction of justice. :P

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In2ition
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by In2ition » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:40 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:30 pm
Cap wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:25 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:11 pm
For the folks saying "but subsequent tests showed no signs of anything!" Well, that is what the diuretic is supposed to do. It is not evidence that nothing else was there. It is simply evidence that whatever he took did a good job.
The diuretic only makes urine test clean. If the follow up tests are of blood draws, the diuretic won’t hide anything.
I didn't hear about any additional blood draws. Usually you take two samples (or split the sample you take into two before testing). That way you can confirm your test, or test specifically for other chemicals your first test doesn't cover. Did they say they took blood?
I didn't hear about a blood test either, but they were looking much closer for trace amounts of something and they found nothing. Maybe it was a blood test that had to look for the trace amounts of a substance as opposed to just another urine test.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Danimal
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Danimal » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:17 pm

Seriously what the f*** is happening with this. They made it sound like appealing this was a top priority but it’s been complete silence. Are they going to wait until 24 games into the suspension to act?

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Split T
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Split T » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:24 pm

It was announced Friday, right? I can’t imagine the league/players association would have done anything over the weekend. Probably filed the appeal today. Probably hear something by the end of the week.

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Indy
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Indy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:08 am

Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:24 pm
It was announced Friday, right? I can’t imagine the league/players association would have done anything over the weekend. Probably filed the appeal today. Probably hear something by the end of the week.
this. and the less you hear from the Suns about it, the less likely they think it was unintentional.

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Cap
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Cap » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:13 am

Indy wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:08 am
Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:24 pm
It was announced Friday, right? I can’t imagine the league/players association would have done anything over the weekend. Probably filed the appeal today. Probably hear something by the end of the week.
this. and the less you hear from the Suns about it, the less likely they think it was unintentional.
The official statement from the team was really harsh. It seems to allow only two possibilities: Either they have information clearly establishing Ayton’s culpability, or they have reached new heights of a****** and stupidity.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Mori Chu » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:24 pm

Here's an article about Ayton's suspension from Cronkite News.

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2019/10/ ... ge-intent/

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Superbone
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Superbone » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:39 pm

Good article. Thanks for posting. More and better information than I've read to date.
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:53 pm

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/10/deandr ... enix-suns/
Suns’ Deandre Ayton to Meet With NBA on Suspension Appeal This Week

Ayton has planned all along to fight the suspension and he’ll finally get the chance by the end of this week.

According to a league source, Ayton’s camp and the players union expects to meet with the NBA to present its case for a reduction of the suspension by the end of the week.
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by iLLmatic » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:15 am

Was he not in Phoenix the entire time working out with the staff? If there was ever a question regarding the supplements he was taking he could've reached out. This feels like Ayton knew what he was doing wrong and did it any way.

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Superbone
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Re: Ayton Possible 25 Game Suspension

Post by Superbone » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:39 pm

iLLmatic wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:15 am
Was he not in Phoenix the entire time working out with the staff? If there was ever a question regarding the supplements he was taking he could've reached out. This feels like Ayton knew what he was doing wrong and did it any way.
At the very least, he didn't go through the proper channels with his supplements.
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