Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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The Bobster
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by The Bobster »

I would go TJ, Kaminsky and a second-rounder, because you're giving them a lot of salary cap relief.

Love is a great rebounder and shooter, and those are two things the Suns could use, but you're gambling he's got three quality years left in him after this one.
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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by In2ition »

I think he would be less injury prone with the Suns, as he wouldn't need to play center like he does a lot of the time in Cleveland.

The salary is a lot, but who are they going to spend on? Do you really think they are going to sign Gallo or AD this summer? If not, you look at it as would you give him 3 yrs $30 mil?

Also, if they give up a 1st or more, I agree with sauce, the pick isn't going to be worth much and they still have a lot of young players. Plus, you expect both Ayton and Baynes back at the same time. So a rotation of Ayton, Love, Saric, Baynes and Diallo is pretty formidable, imo. Only thing missing is a shot blocker if Ayton doesn't provide that.

It also allows them to resign both Saric and Baynes in the off-season as they can go over the cap for both. Let me know if I'm wrong about that.
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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by specialsauce »

Russell Westbrook was traded for Chris Paul, 2 first round picks and the right to swap 2 more first round picks. He’s 31 and his contract is insane as well.

This board is crazy when it comes to trades. You guys want maximum return while protecting Josh Jackson as an asset like he’s Clyde Drexler.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Split T »

Because Chris Paul’s contract was also insane. I’d give up a 1st if Tyler had multiple years left on his contract.

Love is a good player, he’d make us better and we’d almost surely make the playoffs with him, but we’d be locking our team in place.

Is Rubio/Booker/Oubre/Love/Ayton a title contender? I don’t think so. I’d rather keep my options open rather than committing to Love.

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Democritus
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Democritus »

Get Love if you can. Dreaming of an another elite free agent to come here is an illusion we can't afford to have at this moment. I agree we can't compete for the title with Love but being a playoff team for 3 years is enough for me at the moment. Our only chance to compete for the title is Ayton who has to become Giannislike which of course is another pipe dream.
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Split T »

It’s not even necessarily about free agency. We limit our ability to make other trades.


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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by specialsauce »

Split T wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:04 pm
Because Chris Paul’s contract was also insane. I’d give up a 1st if Tyler had multiple years left on his contract.

Love is a good player, he’d make us better and we’d almost surely make the playoffs with him, but we’d be locking our team in place.

Is Rubio/Booker/Oubre/Love/Ayton a title contender? I don’t think so. I’d rather keep my options open rather than committing to Love.
Thats fair

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by INFORMER »

Split T wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:25 pm
It’s not even necessarily about free agency. We limit our ability to make other trades.

Thank you.

The concept of Kevin Love the basketball talent makes sense. But he can't stay on the court, and it has nothing to do with him playing center. Add his gargantuan salary to that, it is just hard to pull the trigger on a deal in which the Suns would give up anything of substance.
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The Bobster
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by The Bobster »

I'd have more interest in Larry Nance Jr. - he's also got three years remaining after this, but at only $32 million.
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In2ition
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by In2ition »

Why? Can he shoot, rebound, set good screens or make outlet passes?
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Split T »

In2ition wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:54 pm
Why? Can he shoot, rebound, set good screens or make outlet passes?
Yes, yes, not sure, not sure.

He’s at 37% from 3 on over 3 attempts a game. He’s over 10 rebounds per 36. He’s a better defensive player than Love..cheaper and younger. I would definitely take him over Love.

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Split T wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:06 pm
In2ition wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:54 pm
Why? Can he shoot, rebound, set good screens or make outlet passes?
Yes, yes, not sure, not sure.

He’s at 37% from 3 on over 3 attempts a game. He’s over 10 rebounds per 36. He’s a better defensive player than Love..cheaper and younger. I would definitely take him over Love.
Pretty sure Cleveland arrived earlier to the same veredict and therefore started taking offers for Kevin Love. For Nance they would be asking picks AND talent, while probably Kevin could be had for Cap Relief and
“something else”. It’s not just the player and his contract, it’s also how much would take to bring him over here in terms of assets going out.
Last edited by Aztec Sunsfan on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

None of the available PF would be perfect, otherwise they wouldn’t be on the trading block. But even if Ayton returns at his best, Saric and Frank are too much of a weak link for this team if we are going to raise the bar on expectations. We need to take TJ’s contract, one of our soft PF and perhaps a protected first to improved the position, then we could start talking about playoffs.

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SunsRIt
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by SunsRIt »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:42 am
Wally_West wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:33 am
An unprotected 1st??!? What?!??
Yeah.

You got to pay to play. With love here, our first won’t be s***.

Love is not just a salary dump. He’s a multi-All Star who is still in his prime.

He’s averaging nearly 17/10 on 45/38/88 splits this year. You’re not getting him for your trash.
I guess I'm confused. Ayton averaged nearly the same(shooting nearly 60% from the field) with no point guard in his rookie year and the board thinks he sucks, yet we would give valuable assets to get Love at $30+ million per year because he used to be great? I really don't think this board understands what we have in Ayton.

We need to sit tight, the suspension is almost over.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Ring_Wanted »

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:19 am
This board is crazy when it comes to trades. You guys want maximum return while protecting Josh Jackson as an asset like he’s Clyde Drexler.
haha so true

Although I don't think we'd need to make the pick unprotected to be the best offer CLE gets for Love. Like others have said, there are concerns that impact his value and trading for 2020 Kevin Love doesn't make sense for many teams anyway.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Split T »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:56 am
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:19 am
This board is crazy when it comes to trades. You guys want maximum return while protecting Josh Jackson as an asset like he’s Clyde Drexler.
haha so true

Although I don't think we'd need to make the pick unprotected to be the best offer CLE gets for Love. Like others have said, there are concerns that impact his value and trading for 2020 Kevin Love doesn't make sense for many teams anyway.
Portland was the one team I could have seen really needing Love, but this Melo thing is going ok for them so far.

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Wormwood
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Wormwood »

I don't think we make the playoffs with Saric and Frank at the 4. So, the Suns need to decide if they're in a win now mode, or if they're willing to end up 38-44 (like 538 predicted) with the 13th pick in the draft and ~$15M in cap space after re-signing Baynes. There's big downside to either option. Be a good team now? Or hope that a "meh" draft pick and a mid-size cap slot can make us a contender, without alienating the rest of the team who are sick of losing.

Gallinary and Nance would be great fits, but the asking price is going to be VERY high. As in, TJ and Kaminsky for cap relief won't even get us in the door.

With Love? Maybe.

That said, I'd still make a run at Daniel Theis. Kamisky + our 1st round pick (protected). Guy completely fits the mold JJ is looking for (28 YO PF defensive ace who can hit the 3).

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Mori Chu »

I'd really like for us to have Kevin Love. I don't mind the contract; I think he'd be worth it for the most part. He's exactly what I want in a PF, generally speaking: he hits 3s, rebounds really well, sees the floor and passes well, etc. Not an awesome defender, and he's a bit injury-prone, though I wonder how much of that is due to not having anything to play for lately. And offensively I think he'd match well with Ayton.

The main concern I have about it is that we'd then have three starters who are subpar defenders: Booker, Love, and Ayton. We'd score a lot, but we'd give up a lot, too.

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JeremyG
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by JeremyG »

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:19 pm
I'd really like for us to have Kevin Love. I don't mind the contract; I think he'd be worth it for the most part. He's exactly what I want in a PF, generally speaking: he hits 3s, rebounds really well, sees the floor and passes well, etc. Not an awesome defender, and he's a bit injury-prone, though I wonder how much of that is due to not having anything to play for lately. And offensively I think he'd match well with Ayton.

The main concern I have about it is that we'd then have three starters who are subpar defenders: Booker, Love, and Ayton. We'd score a lot, but we'd give up a lot, too.
What evidence do you have that Ayton is a subpar defender?
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 7 12/2-12/8

Post by Split T »

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:45 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:19 pm
I'd really like for us to have Kevin Love. I don't mind the contract; I think he'd be worth it for the most part. He's exactly what I want in a PF, generally speaking: he hits 3s, rebounds really well, sees the floor and passes well, etc. Not an awesome defender, and he's a bit injury-prone, though I wonder how much of that is due to not having anything to play for lately. And offensively I think he'd match well with Ayton.

The main concern I have about it is that we'd then have three starters who are subpar defenders: Booker, Love, and Ayton. We'd score a lot, but we'd give up a lot, too.
What evidence do you have that Ayton is a subpar defender?
I mean he was pretty bad last year. Although he can certainly get better, most rookies aren’t good defenders.

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