I gotta say, Eddie Johnson’s crusade against 3s and analytics this season has been the most annoying thing about the Suns broadcast by a mile.
Legit. He bitches about 3s even when the Suns take a 2.
Must really hate guys like James Harden and Steph Curry.
There are 9 players averaging more than 9 3PAs/Game this year (if Steph were playing it would be 10). And 7/10 guys are doing it for the first time this year. Only 4 of those guys are in the playoffs as of today.
I was surprised to see that neither 3PA or 3P% correlates to a higher win percentage.
Only 3 teams in the league average better than 37% from 3. One of them is Detroit.
The mid-point of 3P% is 35.5%. Of the 15 teams in the top half, 7 have losing records.
The top 10 records in the league have 4 teams below league average in 3P%.
I gotta say, Eddie Johnson’s crusade against 3s and analytics this season has been the most annoying thing about the Suns broadcast by a mile.
Legit. He bitches about 3s even when the Suns take a 2.
Must really hate guys like James Harden and Steph Curry.
There are 9 players averaging more than 9 3PAs/Game this year (if Steph were playing it would be 10). And 7/10 guys are doing it for the first time this year. Only 4 of those guys are in the playoffs as of today.
I was surprised to see that neither 3PA or 3P% correlates to a higher win percentage.
Only 3 teams in the league average better than 37% from 3. One of them is Detroit.
The mid-point of 3P% is 35.5%. Of the 15 teams in the top half, 7 have losing records.
The top 10 records in the league have 4 teams below league average in 3P%.
I do think there is some correlation to attempting more 3’s and offensive efficiency. Top 3 most efficient offenses are Dallas, Milwaukee, and Houston. They also rank 1st, 2nd, 4th in 3 pt attempts.
There are definitely offensive teams that are efficient without shooting 3’s(Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets, Thunder, Pacers) and teams that shoot a lot of 3’s and aren’t very efficient(Wolves, Nets, Pelicans, Raptors, Bulls, Hawks, Hornets, Kings) but that still leaves about 18 teams that follow a pretty linear pattern in 3PA rank plotted over Offensive efficiency rank.
It's not about 3PA or 3P% - it's about offense generating makeable shots and defense denying makeable shots. Defenses are set up to deny open dunks - so you have to run some kind of offense to get a good shot.
My beef with EJ is that the Suns do run their offense far more often than not. They usually do a good job of moving the ball and moving off the ball. How often do the Suns come down the court and jack up a contested 3 out of rhythm? Not often. How often do they drive into traffic with no thought of passing out? a lot less than previously. We have very few wasted possessions. So what is EJ complaining about?
I'd like to break down some video of his career with the commentator talking shit about settling for jumpers instead of driving the ball. The game hasn't changed that much, EJ.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
I thought we traded the 2020 1st for Baynes and Ty Jerome?
It was the Milwaukee 2020 pick.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
EJ's issue is more with the "3s and layups only" type players and teams. He doesn't like when people bash the mid-range shot. I know this because he's told me 700 times when I watch the games. Every mid-range shot taken is feted as a victory for EJ against the nerds.
EJ's issue is more with the "3s and layups only" type players and teams. He doesn't like when people bash the mid-range shot. I know this because he's told me 700 times when I watch the games. Every mid-range shot taken is feted as a victory for EJ against the nerds.
I think only made mid-range shots are used that way.
He doesn't bother me at all on the broadcasts about it, but maybe that is because I am old.
I gotta say, Eddie Johnson’s crusade against 3s and analytics this season has been the most annoying thing about the Suns broadcast by a mile.
Legit. He bitches about 3s even when the Suns take a 2.
Must really hate guys like James Harden and Steph Curry.
There are 9 players averaging more than 9 3PAs/Game this year (if Steph were playing it would be 10). And 7/10 guys are doing it for the first time this year. Only 4 of those guys are in the playoffs as of today.
I was surprised to see that neither 3PA or 3P% correlates to a higher win percentage.
Only 3 teams in the league average better than 37% from 3. One of them is Detroit.
The mid-point of 3P% is 35.5%. Of the 15 teams in the top half, 7 have losing records.
The top 10 records in the league have 4 teams below league average in 3P%.
I do think there is some correlation to attempting more 3’s and offensive efficiency. Top 3 most efficient offenses are Dallas, Milwaukee, and Houston. They also rank 1st, 2nd, 4th in 3 pt attempts.
There are definitely offensive teams that are efficient without shooting 3’s(Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets, Thunder, Pacers) and teams that shoot a lot of 3’s and aren’t very efficient(Wolves, Nets, Pelicans, Raptors, Bulls, Hawks, Hornets, Kings) but that still leaves about 18 teams that follow a pretty linear pattern in 3PA rank plotted over Offensive efficiency rank.
DET, MEM, and WAS are in top 10 for eFG% and are all sub .400 teams. Or do you mean points per possession, not points per shot?
Points per possession. Instead of looking at how 3pt shooting impacts winning, I just tried to see how it impacts offense.
There’s a lot of exceptions, but a decent amount of teams seem to follow the shoot more 3’s and your offense gets better pattern.
Because of the many exceptions, I would never suggest to just simply shoot more 3’s. Minnesota, Atlanta, Chicago, and New Orleans shoot a lot of 3’s and all of those teams have bad offenses. You also have teams like the Spurs, Pacers, and Lakers who have good offenses and don’t shoot a lot of 3’s.
Basketball reference has a four factor stat to help explain what makes an offense good. It includes efg%, turnover rate, orb%, and FT/FGA. So how efficiently do you shoot, how well do you take care of the ball, how often do you create 2nd chances, and how often do you get to the line. The whole idea of shooting 3’s and layups is to increase the efg% portion of these stats. It’s very hard to have a high efg% if you take a lot of mid range shots.
So how do the Lakers, Spurs, and Pacers manage to have average to above average offenses without taking many 3’s?
In the case of the Lakers, they still manage to have the 3rd highest efg% in the league. That’s because they take the 3rd most shots at the rim and shoot the 2nd highest fg% at the rim(only Milwaukee is higher).
The spurs and pacers manage to have pretty average efg%, but their offense is boosted by being top 5 teams at taking care of the ball. They simply don’t give away possessions and then are average to slightly below average offensively otherwise.
The suns are an above average offensive team. Their strengths are getting to the ft line and taking care of the ball. They are slightly above average at efg% and are pretty bad at creating 2nd chance opportunities.
These same factors can help explain defense as well. The suns are bad defensively and that mostly comes from letting the opposing team shoot very efficiently. We actually defend the rim ok, but give up high percentages in all other areas. We’re actually pretty good at forcing turnovers and are one of the better defensive rebounding teams when the opponent misses. They just don’t miss much against our defense.
Here’s where we rank offensively:
11th in efg% at .527(league average is .523)
9th in TO% at 12.5(league average is 13.0)
27th in orb% at 21.1(league average is 22.7)
6th in FT/FGA at .215(league average is .198)
Defensively:
26th in efg% at .546
6th in TO% at 14.1
6th in DRB% at 78.8
24th in FT/FGA at .223
EJ's issue is more with the "3s and layups only" type players and teams. He doesn't like when people bash the mid-range shot. I know this because he's told me 700 times when I watch the games. Every mid-range shot taken is feted as a victory for EJ against the nerds.
I think only made mid-range shots are used that way.
He doesn't bother me at all on the broadcasts about it, but maybe that is because I am old.
Me either. Besides, 'Bazz is exaggerating. He said it 650 times, tops.
Points per possession. Instead of looking at how 3pt shooting impacts winning, I just tried to see how it impacts offense.
...
Here’s where we rank offensively:
11th in efg% at .527(league average is .523)
9th in TO% at 12.5(league average is 13.0)
27th in orb% at 21.1(league average is 22.7)
6th in FT/FGA at .215(league average is .198)
Defensively:
26th in efg% at .546
6th in TO% at 14.1
6th in DRB% at 78.8
24th in FT/FGA at .223
Nice breakdown.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
Points per possession. Instead of looking at how 3pt shooting impacts winning, I just tried to see how it impacts offense.
...
Here’s where we rank offensively:
11th in efg% at .527(league average is .523)
9th in TO% at 12.5(league average is 13.0)
27th in orb% at 21.1(league average is 22.7)
6th in FT/FGA at .215(league average is .198)
Defensively:
26th in efg% at .546
6th in TO% at 14.1
6th in DRB% at 78.8
24th in FT/FGA at .223
To be fair, Chriss has played better this year, just not well enough to guarantee a spot on the Warriors' roster because of their financial/roster crunch.
And Bender and Jackson seem to be great G-League players!
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Points per possession. Instead of looking at how 3pt shooting impacts winning, I just tried to see how it impacts offense.
...
Here’s where we rank offensively:
11th in efg% at .527(league average is .523)
9th in TO% at 12.5(league average is 13.0)
27th in orb% at 21.1(league average is 22.7)
6th in FT/FGA at .215(league average is .198)
Defensively:
26th in efg% at .546
6th in TO% at 14.1
6th in DRB% at 78.8
24th in FT/FGA at .223
To be fair, Chriss has played better this year, just not well enough to guarantee a spot on the Warriors' roster because of their financial/roster crunch.
And Bender and Jackson seem to be great G-League players!
Is he still getting paid? I can't remember how long his contract was when he was fired. It is a monumental disaster. Thank our sun god that Booker is a real player and fell to 13 for us and was a consensus pick at that spot. If we had the 5 pick in that draft instead of 13, we probably would have taken Frank Kaminsky.
Chriss was having a decent year...GS had to cut him to convert Damion Lee’s two way deal into a full contract. Lee has been really good for them. Would not be surprised if someone else picks Chriss up. His per 36 numbers were 15/11/4 with 1.8 blocks and 1.2 steals. He was getting to the ft line at a career best rate and making them at 76%. His 3 pt shooting had continued to regress, but shooting 48% overall, another career high. He’s still only 22. I think he’s an nba player...probably needed another 2 years in college or g league before coming to the NBA. That’s the danger of drafting guys on potential and not having a system in place to develop them.
Bender was just named g league player of the week. Jackson is averaging like 20/8/4 on .45/.37 shooting splits in the g league. Maybe McD should be a G league GM?
