Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by AmareIsGod »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 pm
If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.
And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.
Considering he's one of the most efficient shooters in the league and on a historic clip over the past 7 games, only matched once, in history, I'm not sure Booker needs to be reminded of anything.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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SunsRIt
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by SunsRIt »

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:20 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:28 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:24 pm
Gambo is so spot on today it’s refreshing. Just blasting the Suns players and coaches. Feed the inside!!!
Booker looking only for Oubre. Oubre looking for Oubre.
Book was the guy getting Ayton the ball in the first and 3rd quarter when Ayton was fresh and trying hard in the post.

And other than Kelly, name a reliable scoring option for Book to find when he is doubled?
Pass!!!! Pass pass pass. Get it into Ayton and he will either score or demand a double team and swing it around. Oubre is not good enough to be a #2. He will hurt us in the long run more than help. He’s only good when he’s on but he sucks the life out of the motion of the offense and hurts the team as a whole.

Growth from this team will depend on Ayton. It’s time we acknowledge that and force it.
Could it be that Booker stopped feeding Ayton because he had less points than Ayton in the first quarter and he needed to get his numbers? Maybe Booker’s scoring streak is more important to him than getting Ayton the ball? Didn’t Booker’s scoring streak start when he found out he was getting snubbed on the all-start voting?

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Split T »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:19 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 pm
If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.
And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.
Considering he's one of the most efficient shooters in the league and on a historic clip over the past 7 games, only matched once, in history, I'm not sure Booker needs to be reminded of anything.
I’m talking about his 3 pt shooting. He’d be a historically great offensive player if he was shooting 3’s like we all thought he would be. His mid range game and at the rim scoring are quite elite, I don’t have any issues there. Just imagine if he was also a 40% 3pt shooter.

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Split T »

SunsRIt wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:22 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:20 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:28 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:24 pm
Gambo is so spot on today it’s refreshing. Just blasting the Suns players and coaches. Feed the inside!!!
Booker looking only for Oubre. Oubre looking for Oubre.
Book was the guy getting Ayton the ball in the first and 3rd quarter when Ayton was fresh and trying hard in the post.

And other than Kelly, name a reliable scoring option for Book to find when he is doubled?
Pass!!!! Pass pass pass. Get it into Ayton and he will either score or demand a double team and swing it around. Oubre is not good enough to be a #2. He will hurt us in the long run more than help. He’s only good when he’s on but he sucks the life out of the motion of the offense and hurts the team as a whole.

Growth from this team will depend on Ayton. It’s time we acknowledge that and force it.
Could it be that Booker stopped feeding Ayton because he had less points than Ayton in the first quarter and he needed to get his numbers? Maybe Booker’s scoring streak is more important to him than getting Ayton the ball? Didn’t Booker’s scoring streak start when he found out he was getting snubbed on the all-start voting?
Ayton was getting the ball early in the game because he was rolling hard and getting great position. I’d have to rewatch to know for sure, but I didn’t see obvious times where we could have gotten Ayton the ball and didn’t. Perhaps Sacramento switched up their coverage, perhaps we changed up the plays we were running, or perhaps Ayton got tired, his effort dropped, and he wasn’t getting good position anymore. Booker not passing to get more points is ridiculous. I’m pretty sure Booker passed Ayton in scoring somewhere in the 3rd Q anyways.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by specialsauce »

He was rolling hard until the last few minutes when the kings were running away with it and it was obvious we were in full just iso and do whatever the hell we want on the perimeter mode. I rewatched the third and fourth.

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Superbone
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Superbone »

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:26 pm
He was rolling hard until the last few minutes when the kings were running away with it and it was obvious we were in full just iso and do whatever the hell we want on the perimeter mode. I rewatched the third and fourth.
You are a glutton for punishment, sir!
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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by specialsauce »

Superbone wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:46 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:26 pm
He was rolling hard until the last few minutes when the kings were running away with it and it was obvious we were in full just iso and do whatever the hell we want on the perimeter mode. I rewatched the third and fourth.
You are a glutton for punishment, sir!
Lol. Fast forwarded most parts to look at some breakdowns.

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JeremyG
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by JeremyG »

Another epic Gambo rant to start today's show: https://omny.fm/shows/burns-gambo/january-8-2020-hour-1
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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3rdside
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Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by 3rdside »

O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:11 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 pm
If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.
We’re pretty bad as a team on corner 3’s. A few guys shoot well(Cam, Oubre, Kaminsky, Tyler, Rubio) but the rest of the team is awful. Saric is like 18%, Baynes is 20%, Bridges is in the 20% range. Even Booker is only 31%. Carter is also bad. Carter and Bridges particularly take a high percentage of their 3’s from the corner and rarely make them.

On the flip side, Kaminsky almost never shoots corner 3’s, but he’s pretty good at them. Rubio also takes too many non corner 3’s, but that has a lot to do with him being on the ball so much.

We need to put players in position to succeed. Get Saric and Baynes looks from up top. Get Kaminsky and Tyler into the corner. Cam is one of the few guys we use properly as he takes and makes a lot of corner 3’s.

And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.
To me, it looks like we don't persist with our offense. We used to complain about the Suns over passing, but now they take the first open shot even if it isn't a good open shot.

This is a viewpoint I considered - that Booker's increased usage upsets team chemistry and therefore our results.

The numbers don't exactly prove the latter (7-4 start with lower Booker usage, 3-3 during his recent higher usage hot streak, now 3-4 after this game) but might the former ... is Booker bad for the team in that sense?

Edit: I was a little bummed yesterday, 'trade the whole team!', so overreacted maybe, but Ayton really screwed our season .. sob better average 30-15 rest of the way otherwise ship him :)

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O_Gardino
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by O_Gardino »

3rdside wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:50 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:11 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 pm
If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.
We’re pretty bad as a team on corner 3’s. A few guys shoot well(Cam, Oubre, Kaminsky, Tyler, Rubio) but the rest of the team is awful. Saric is like 18%, Baynes is 20%, Bridges is in the 20% range. Even Booker is only 31%. Carter is also bad. Carter and Bridges particularly take a high percentage of their 3’s from the corner and rarely make them.

On the flip side, Kaminsky almost never shoots corner 3’s, but he’s pretty good at them. Rubio also takes too many non corner 3’s, but that has a lot to do with him being on the ball so much.

We need to put players in position to succeed. Get Saric and Baynes looks from up top. Get Kaminsky and Tyler into the corner. Cam is one of the few guys we use properly as he takes and makes a lot of corner 3’s.

And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.
To me, it looks like we don't persist with our offense. We used to complain about the Suns over passing, but now they take the first open shot even if it isn't a good open shot.

This is a viewpoint I considered - that Booker's increased usage upsets team chemistry and therefore our results.

The numbers don't exactly prove the latter (7-4 start with lower Booker usage, 3-3 during his recent higher usage hot streak, now 3-4 after this game) but might the former ... is Booker bad for the team in that sense?

Edit: I was a little bummed yesterday, 'trade the whole team!', so overreacted maybe, but Ayton really screwed our season .. sob better average 30-15 rest of the way otherwise ship him :)
I think there is a correlation there. It will be a season long process of the team growing chemistry and trust. Everybody has to get that rhythm where Booker can be a star and the rest of the team is involved, too. Even the best teams have to grow that over time.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:26 pm
AmareIsGod wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:19 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 pm
If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.
And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.
Considering he's one of the most efficient shooters in the league and on a historic clip over the past 7 games, only matched once, in history, I'm not sure Booker needs to be reminded of anything.
I’m talking about his 3 pt shooting. He’d be a historically great offensive player if he was shooting 3’s like we all thought he would be. His mid range game and at the rim scoring are quite elite, I don’t have any issues there. Just imagine if he was also a 40% 3pt shooter.
Last month (Dec 9 to Jan 9) he is shooting 20.5% from 3. OMFG

Up until Dec 9 he was shooting 42% from 3. Elite.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Indy »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:16 am
3rdside wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:50 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:11 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:35 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:21 pm
If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.
We’re pretty bad as a team on corner 3’s. A few guys shoot well(Cam, Oubre, Kaminsky, Tyler, Rubio) but the rest of the team is awful. Saric is like 18%, Baynes is 20%, Bridges is in the 20% range. Even Booker is only 31%. Carter is also bad. Carter and Bridges particularly take a high percentage of their 3’s from the corner and rarely make them.

On the flip side, Kaminsky almost never shoots corner 3’s, but he’s pretty good at them. Rubio also takes too many non corner 3’s, but that has a lot to do with him being on the ball so much.

We need to put players in position to succeed. Get Saric and Baynes looks from up top. Get Kaminsky and Tyler into the corner. Cam is one of the few guys we use properly as he takes and makes a lot of corner 3’s.

And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.
To me, it looks like we don't persist with our offense. We used to complain about the Suns over passing, but now they take the first open shot even if it isn't a good open shot.

This is a viewpoint I considered - that Booker's increased usage upsets team chemistry and therefore our results.

The numbers don't exactly prove the latter (7-4 start with lower Booker usage, 3-3 during his recent higher usage hot streak, now 3-4 after this game) but might the former ... is Booker bad for the team in that sense?

Edit: I was a little bummed yesterday, 'trade the whole team!', so overreacted maybe, but Ayton really screwed our season .. sob better average 30-15 rest of the way otherwise ship him :)
I think there is a correlation there. It will be a season long process of the team growing chemistry and trust. Everybody has to get that rhythm where Booker can be a star and the rest of the team is involved, too. Even the best teams have to grow that over time.
He was deferring a ton after our hot start and we were losing and people kept saying he needed to be more dominant.

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JeremyG
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by JeremyG »

Booker's three-point shooting dropped off when he got the arm injury IIRC. Maybe he's still not right.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Indy »

I assume that too. Remember the good ole days when the suns would post videos of him making 48 in a row?

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Nodack
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Nodack »

For being hurt and avoiding threes, he sure seems to be making it up elsewhere.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am
For being hurt and avoiding threes, he sure seems to be making it up elsewhere.
Yep. Like last year when he was screwing around and broke his right hand. He got a LOT better with his left.

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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:01 pm
I assume that too. Remember the good ole days when the suns would post videos of him making 48 in a row?
Those were so dumb. As a coach myself, they were offensive to me. You can't measure yourself or get better at in game 3 pt shooting, by sitting there shooting like you are at a pop-a-shot machine. Does that seem realistic? If you had him sprinting to half court, coming down and hitting it, then next time doing the same, but taking a dribble before hitting it, and then the next time running from sideline to sideline and catching it and hitting it...ect. Then making 48 in a row would be impressive. You only do standstill shooting over and over to find your groove and build muscle memory on your shot form, but it's not all that helpful to translate into game shots.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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SunsRIt
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by SunsRIt »

:cry:
In2ition wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:52 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:01 pm
I assume that too. Remember the good ole days when the suns would post videos of him making 48 in a row?
Those were so dumb. As a coach myself, they were offensive to me. You can't measure yourself or get better at in game 3 pt shooting, by sitting there shooting like you are at a pop-a-shot machine. Does that seem realistic? If you had him sprinting to half court, coming down and hitting it, then next time doing the same, but taking a dribble before hitting it, and then the next time running from sideline to sideline and catching it and hitting it...ect. Then making 48 in a row would be impressive. You only do standstill shooting over and over to find your groove and build muscle memory on your shot form, but it's not all that helpful to translate into game shots.
So you can do it?

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by Indy »

SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:38 am
:cry:
In2ition wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:52 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:01 pm
I assume that too. Remember the good ole days when the suns would post videos of him making 48 in a row?
Those were so dumb. As a coach myself, they were offensive to me. You can't measure yourself or get better at in game 3 pt shooting, by sitting there shooting like you are at a pop-a-shot machine. Does that seem realistic? If you had him sprinting to half court, coming down and hitting it, then next time doing the same, but taking a dribble before hitting it, and then the next time running from sideline to sideline and catching it and hitting it...ect. Then making 48 in a row would be impressive. You only do standstill shooting over and over to find your groove and build muscle memory on your shot form, but it's not all that helpful to translate into game shots.
So you can do it?
I don't think he is saying that. He is saying that making shots in practice, not even game-like situations, is something Dan Langhi can do. So it isn't big thing to pimp.

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In2ition
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Re: Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:46 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:38 am
:cry:
In2ition wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:52 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:01 pm
I assume that too. Remember the good ole days when the suns would post videos of him making 48 in a row?
Those were so dumb. As a coach myself, they were offensive to me. You can't measure yourself or get better at in game 3 pt shooting, by sitting there shooting like you are at a pop-a-shot machine. Does that seem realistic? If you had him sprinting to half court, coming down and hitting it, then next time doing the same, but taking a dribble before hitting it, and then the next time running from sideline to sideline and catching it and hitting it...ect. Then making 48 in a row would be impressive. You only do standstill shooting over and over to find your groove and build muscle memory on your shot form, but it's not all that helpful to translate into game shots.
So you can do it?
I don't think he is saying that. He is saying that making shots in practice, not even game-like situations, is something Dan Langhi can do. So it isn't big thing to pimp.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to compare myself to Devin. I'm a good shooter, but I have never made 48 3 pointers in a row, nor have I ever been paid to "play" basketball at the highest level.

Haven't you ever asked yourself why Devin has never made even 6 in a row from 3 without a miss in a game if he can make 48 in a row in practice? That's just 1/8th as many. Seems like that should be doable, no?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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