Game Day: Kings (14-23) @ Suns (14-22), Tues 1/7/20

[AmareIsGod]

[Superbone]

I agree that Ayton needs to be utilized better. We need to start feeding him in the post and make him go to work. He needs to be more than a screen setter. He doesn't have natural instincts on what he should be doing and needs to be taught.

But he needs to get in the right spot and seal. He hasn't been fighting to do that very often.

Yep, and that doesn't come naturally to him. He needs to be taught to do that and then he needs to do that.

[specialsauce]

He has been truly outstanding aside from his puzzling 3 point shooting.

It’s all been wasted and that’s the worst part. We should have won every single one of those games when he goes off like that.

[Split T]

We need an answer for when Booker is not on the court.

[iLLmatic]

Oubre and Baynes getting ripped on local radio right now for taking ill advised 3s instead of deferring to Booker and Ayton. THANK YOU

Baynes needs to stop with his 3's, I'm cool if Kelly reigns it in also.

[specialsauce]

If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.

[Split T]

Can I just reiterate that giving Okobo more time might be quite helpful. He’s been in and out of the rotation, but he’s been easily the most consistent backup pg. I think there’s a case for giving him a bigger role. He’s currently playing about 12 minutes a game, but I think giving him all the backup guard minutes might be the right call.

He leads the team in 3pt% at 41%, he’s 2nd on the team in AST/36. He barely turns the ball over, only Oubre and Cam Johnson have lower TO%. He leads the team in FT rate.

He could be our answer to the non booker minutes. Perhaps his numbers are skewed because I think he plays a lot with Booker(he comes in when rubio goes out), but it’s worth a shot. He can shoot, he’s creating offense, he can get to the rim, he’s drawing fouls, and he’s not turning the ball over.

Let him split ball handling duties with Booker when they play together, and then have him play off the ball with Rubio on the court.

He was disappointing last year, but I was very high on him predraft and he’s a talent. There might be something there.

[Split T]

If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.

We’re pretty bad as a team on corner 3’s. A few guys shoot well(Cam, Oubre, Kaminsky, Tyler, Rubio) but the rest of the team is awful. Saric is like 18%, Baynes is 20%, Bridges is in the 20% range. Even Booker is only 31%. Carter is also bad. Carter and Bridges particularly take a high percentage of their 3’s from the corner and rarely make them.

On the flip side, Kaminsky almost never shoots corner 3’s, but he’s pretty good at them. Rubio also takes too many non corner 3’s, but that has a lot to do with him being on the ball so much.

We need to put players in position to succeed. Get Saric and Baynes looks from up top. Get Kaminsky and Tyler into the corner. Cam is one of the few guys we use properly as he takes and makes a lot of corner 3’s.

And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.

[djy2j]

Oubre and Baynes getting ripped on local radio right now for taking ill advised 3s instead of deferring to Booker and Ayton. THANK YOU

Baynes needs to stop with his 3's, I'm cool if Kelly reigns it in also.

It's a pretty easy message to send.I'm not sure why Monty hasn't sent it yet. If it's at the top of the key, shoot it. If it's not straight on or nearly straight on DON"T EVEN THINK ABOUT SHOOTING IT. No more corner, no more elbow threes. Dribble in or pass. Preferably just pass.

[specialsauce]

Can I just reiterate that giving Okobo more time might be quite helpful. He’s been in and out of the rotation, but he’s been easily the most consistent backup pg. I think there’s a case for giving him a bigger role. He’s currently playing about 12 minutes a game, but I think giving him all the backup guard minutes might be the right call.

He leads the team in 3pt% at 41%, he’s 2nd on the team in AST/36. He barely turns the ball over, only Oubre and Cam Johnson have lower TO%. He leads the team in FT rate.

He could be our answer to the non booker minutes. Perhaps his numbers are skewed because I think he plays a lot with Booker(he comes in when rubio goes out), but it’s worth a shot. He can shoot, he’s creating offense, he can get to the rim, he’s drawing fouls, and he’s not turning the ball over.

Let him split ball handling duties with Booker when they play together, and then have him play off the ball with Rubio on the court.

He was disappointing last year, but I was very high on him predraft and he’s a talent. There might be something there.

Agreed on Okobo. Monty doesn’t like him for whatever reason

[Indy]

Oubre and Baynes getting ripped on local radio right now for taking ill advised 3s instead of deferring to Booker and Ayton. THANK YOU

Baynes needs to stop with his 3's, I'm cool if Kelly reigns it in also.

It's a pretty easy message to send.I'm not sure why Monty hasn't sent it yet. If it's at the top of the key, shoot it. If it's not straight on or nearly straight on DON"T EVEN THINK ABOUT SHOOTING IT. No more corner, no more elbow threes. Dribble in or pass. Preferably just pass.

He shouldn't have to say that, because we shouldn't be running offensive sets that puts Baynes at the 3 point line in the corner. He can't drive from there, and he can't shoot from there. It is stupid we keep putting him there in the possession. I swear this Bayton thing just keeps them confused on who is the C and who is the PF. Neither should be chasing a stretch 4 around screens. It is a recipe for wide open 3s and getting both of our bigs into foul trouble or really tired when we need them.

[Indy]

We need an answer for when Booker is not on the court.

agreed. and okobo can certainly help with how he has played. We also need to find a way to keep one of Booker or Rubio on the court at all times.

[specialsauce]

Gambo is so spot on today it’s refreshing. Just blasting the Suns players and coaches. Feed the inside!!!
Booker looking only for Oubre. Oubre looking for Oubre.

[Indy]

Of our most used 2-man lineups from BBref:

We have 12 that are net positive:

Rubio --> 6
Bridges --> 5
Booker --> 3
Kelly --> 3
Baynes --> 3
Frank --> 2
Saric --> 1
Cam --> 1

Of the top 5 (all +4.6 or better)

Rubio --> 3
Bridges --> 3
Booker --> 2
Kelly --> 2


Of the 8 most used that are net negatives (booker/Kelly is our most used, and they are -1.2)

Booker --> 4
Saric --> 4
Kelly --> 3
Frank --> 3
Baynes --> 1
Cam --> 1

[Indy]

Gambo is so spot on today it’s refreshing. Just blasting the Suns players and coaches. Feed the inside!!!
Booker looking only for Oubre. Oubre looking for Oubre.

Book was the guy getting Ayton the ball in the first and 3rd quarter when Ayton was fresh and trying hard in the post.

And other than Kelly, name a reliable scoring option for Book to find when he is doubled?

[JeremyG]

Oubre and Baynes getting ripped on local radio right now for taking ill advised 3s instead of deferring to Booker and Ayton. THANK YOU

Baynes needs to stop with his 3's, I'm cool if Kelly reigns it in also.

It's a pretty easy message to send.I'm not sure why Monty hasn't sent it yet. If it's at the top of the key, shoot it. If it's not straight on or nearly straight on DON"T EVEN THINK ABOUT SHOOTING IT. No more corner, no more elbow threes. Dribble in or pass. Preferably just pass.

He shouldn't have to say that, because we shouldn't be running offensive sets that puts Baynes at the 3 point line in the corner. He can't drive from there, and he can't shoot from there. It is stupid we keep putting him there in the possession. I swear this Bayton thing just keeps them confused on who is the C and who is the PF. Neither should be chasing a stretch 4 around screens. It is a recipe for wide open 3s and getting both of our bigs into foul trouble or really tired when we need them.

"Bayton" was the result of James Jones telling Monty how to coach. The GM should not be meddling, let Monty do his job. That's just as bad as when Sarver used to meddle in the coaching. Let the coach coach.

[specialsauce]

Gambo is so spot on today it’s refreshing. Just blasting the Suns players and coaches. Feed the inside!!!
Booker looking only for Oubre. Oubre looking for Oubre.

Book was the guy getting Ayton the ball in the first and 3rd quarter when Ayton was fresh and trying hard in the post.

And other than Kelly, name a reliable scoring option for Book to find when he is doubled?

Pass!!!! Pass pass pass. Get it into Ayton and he will either score or demand a double team and swing it around. Oubre is not good enough to be a #2. He will hurt us in the long run more than help. He’s only good when he’s on but he sucks the life out of the motion of the offense and hurts the team as a whole.

Growth from this team will depend on Ayton. It’s time we acknowledge that and force it.

[Split T]

Of our most used 2-man lineups from BBref:

We have 12 that are net positive:

Rubio --> 6
Bridges --> 5
Booker --> 3
Kelly --> 3
Baynes --> 3
Frank --> 2
Saric --> 1
Cam --> 1

Of the top 5 (all +4.6 or better)

Rubio --> 3
Bridges --> 3
Booker --> 2
Kelly --> 2


Of the 8 most used that are net negatives (booker/Kelly is our most used, and they are -1.2)

Booker --> 4
Saric --> 4
Kelly --> 3
Frank --> 3
Baynes --> 1
Cam --> 1

Looking at those lineup splits...seems pretty obvious that our best combo is Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Bridges. That group with Ayton is +30 in about 27 minutes of action. That’s my starting lineup.

[O_Gardino]

Lots of strong reactions in this thread. It was an infuriating loss that exposed some of our shortcomings as a team and ended the hope of the playoffs for some.

I think it's obvious to everyone now that it's not a great team. There's still just one star. The young players still have a lot of growing to do. The role players aren't playing at the level some of us hoped for. We still have holes on the roster.

On the other hand...

Over the last 6, the Suns are 3-3. There was one very good stretch at 5-2, one very bad stretch at 0-8, and one long below average stretch at 6-10.

Still on track to win significantly more games than last season and - more importantly - the team is far more competitive game in and game out than they were last year. There's a game plan that gives them a chance. Some nights they don't stick to it, and some night the talent isn't enough. But they do have a plan.

IMHO, the Suns have made a big jump this year. They've gone from being a team that would have struggled in the New Zealand league to being a below average NBA team. It may just be 10-15 more wins by the end of the season, but that is still significant growth.

I appreciate your balanced take. In my mind, our biggest issues are intensity and defense. We don't play with intensity for 48 minutes. When we got up big, we totally let down and started jacking up bad shots and being loose on defense. If we can't stop other teams, we won't win because are shots won't always go down. You see it at the end of these games we blow where the other team's defense tightens up and we quit making shots but we can't stop the other team from scoring.

Very true. We will see if our guys are good enough to learn to sustain that level of effort, and if our coaching staff can set them up for success.

[O_Gardino]

If you look at his shot chart on basketball ref, he’s hit exactly 3 threes from the corners all year. His makes are all along the top of the key. I’d much prefer the pick and roll to involve Baynes (if we’re set on this starting lineup), with him popping rather than rolling. Plant Ayton in the paint.

We’re pretty bad as a team on corner 3’s. A few guys shoot well(Cam, Oubre, Kaminsky, Tyler, Rubio) but the rest of the team is awful. Saric is like 18%, Baynes is 20%, Bridges is in the 20% range. Even Booker is only 31%. Carter is also bad. Carter and Bridges particularly take a high percentage of their 3’s from the corner and rarely make them.

On the flip side, Kaminsky almost never shoots corner 3’s, but he’s pretty good at them. Rubio also takes too many non corner 3’s, but that has a lot to do with him being on the ball so much.

We need to put players in position to succeed. Get Saric and Baynes looks from up top. Get Kaminsky and Tyler into the corner. Cam is one of the few guys we use properly as he takes and makes a lot of corner 3’s.

And will someone remind Bridges how to shoot again. Maybe remind booker while they’re at it.

To me, it looks like we don't persist with our offense. We used to complain about the Suns over passing, but now they take the first open shot even if it isn't a good open shot.