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Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:50 am
by Indy
There are currently 11 teams in the league with a worse record than us. So far, we are 10-5 against them, so I guess that is good news.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:30 pm
by The Bobster
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:53 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:01 am
This isn't meant as Ayton hate, so please don't take this as that, but I know a lot of people have compared Ayton to David Robinson and this clip doesn't make me think that at all. Ayton isn't trying to kill the rim or make athletic and acrobatic runs at the rim like Robinson did regularly. Seriously, could you imagine Ayton getting 52 pts in a game, let alone 71?
Holy SHIT. I didn't realize he was such a beast! I only caught his later playing days when I was younger alongside Duncan. He was more finesse. I wish Ayton was half as physical as Robinson. Not only was he jacked but he was just throwing it down on people! Kind of reminds me of a 7ft Shawn Kemp!
Except David Robinson was waaaaayyyyyyy better than Shawn Kemp ever was.
Robinson was also 24 and had 4 years of college experience coming into the league, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison to Ayton.
Robinson's numbers for his first 7 years before he started having back problems - 38.1 Min, .526 FG%, .747 FT%, 11.8 Reb, 3.1 Ast, 1.7 Stl, 3.6 Blk, 25.6 Pts, 7 All-Star Games, 7 All-NBA, 7-All- Defensive Team, 1 Rookie of the Year, 1 Defensive Player of the Year, 1 Most Valuable Player
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:38 pm
by ShelC
DRob, even with his accolades and respect, is still wildly underrated IMO.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:44 pm
by AmareIsGod
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:38 pm
DRob, even with his accolades and respect, is still wildly underrated IMO.
He sure is! I compared him to Shawn Kemp for Christ's sake!
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:44 pm
by The Bobster
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:38 pm
DRob, even with his accolades and respect, is still wildly underrated IMO.
And we ended up picking #2 that year and getting Armon Gilliam.
<sigh.>
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm
by Charlie Smithy!
I wonder how much Hakeem in '95 and then being superceded by Duncan affected the perception of DRob's career? Obviously a hall of Famer either way.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:49 pm
by The Bobster
I am trying to think of how many centers have I seen play that were good enough scorers to lead the league (or come close) and were good enough defenders to be considered for best defender in the league - Wilt, Kareem, Robinson, Olajuwon. That's about it. Shaq and Moses were great, but not quite that same level defensively.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:45 pm
by O_Gardino
Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm
I wonder how much Hakeem in '95 and then being superceded by Duncan affected the perception of DRob's career? Obviously a hall of Famer either way.
I think those things make a big difference, but he also never was a true contender before Duncan. Not his fault - his teams didn't have the talent. But you make your rep in the Finals.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:58 pm
by SunsRIt
The Bobster wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:30 pm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:53 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:01 am
This isn't meant as Ayton hate, so please don't take this as that, but I know a lot of people have compared Ayton to David Robinson and this clip doesn't make me think that at all. Ayton isn't trying to kill the rim or make athletic and acrobatic runs at the rim like Robinson did regularly. Seriously, could you imagine Ayton getting 52 pts in a game, let alone 71?
Holy s***. I didn't realize he was such a beast! I only caught his later playing days when I was younger alongside Duncan. He was more finesse. I wish Ayton was half as physical as Robinson. Not only was he jacked but he was just throwing it down on people! Kind of reminds me of a 7ft Shawn Kemp!
Except David Robinson was waaaaayyyyyyy better than Shawn Kemp ever was.
Robinson was also 24 and had 4 years of college experience coming into the league, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison to Ayton.
Robinson's numbers for his first 7 years before he started having back problems - 38.1 Min, .526 FG%, .747 FT%, 11.8 Reb, 3.1 Ast, 1.7 Stl, 3.6 Blk, 25.6 Pts, 7 All-Star Games, 7 All-NBA, 7-All- Defensive Team, 1 Rookie of the Year, 1 Defensive Player of the Year, 1 Most Valuable Player
Shaq also had 3 years in college. That’s why I keep saying we need to give Ayton some time. He will get there.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:12 pm
by Indy
But he will never be Shaq or Robinson or any of the other great centers mentioned above. He just isn't wired that way. He may end up being great for us, but it won't be a top 10 center of all-time. You need a level of passion that he hasn't shown yet, and it doesn't come with age/experience. He should be his hungriest right now, proving to the org they didn't make a mistake in taking him, and proving he knows how stupid he was taking the supplements, and showing he can dominate.
I would totally get the "wait and see" attitude if he was making mistakes because he was trying too hard. But his mistakes are not that. We need a Ayton-whisperer, and it probably needs to be someone not in the org but someone he trusts. Too bad we don't have any historic centers associated with our team that could take him under their wing.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:48 pm
by AmareIsGod
Indy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:12 pm
But he will never be Shaq or Robinson or any of the other great centers mentioned above. He just isn't wired that way. He may end up being great for us, but it won't be a top 10 center of all-time. You need a level of passion that he hasn't shown yet, and it doesn't come with age/experience. He should be his hungriest right now, proving to the org they didn't make a mistake in taking him, and proving he knows how stupid he was taking the supplements, and showing he can dominate.
I would totally get the "wait and see" attitude if he was making mistakes because he was trying too hard. But his mistakes are not that. We need a Ayton-whisperer, and it probably needs to be someone not in the org but someone he trusts. Too bad we don't have any historic centers associated with our team that could take him under their wing.
Luc Longley? Jake Tsakalidas? Horacio Llamas?
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:08 pm
by INFORMER
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:37 am
I disagree that Rose is bad money and a marginal talent. $7M this year and another $7M next year for a guy who can still win a game by himself is pretty good value in the NBA right now. I don't necessarily like how he does it, but as a 6th man, with freedom to do Derrick Rose things.. I think it could work.
My comment about bad money was a reference to Tony Snell's inclusion in the deal.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:10 pm
by INFORMER
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:00 pm
What about:
Tyler/Dario/Carter or Elie/top 8-10 protected 1st
For
Aaron Gordon/DJ Augustin
Gordon just signed a big contract and nearly all of his numbers are down. There is no reason to give up a 1st rounder for that.
I like him, and he could use a change of scenery, but he isn't worth what you are offering.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:32 pm
by AmareIsGod
Ayton must have read the comments tonight. That was a great Robinson impersonation.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:35 pm
by Shabazz
INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:10 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:00 pm
What about:
Tyler/Dario/Carter or Elie/top 8-10 protected 1st
For
Aaron Gordon/DJ Augustin
Gordon just signed a big contract and nearly all of his numbers are down. There is no reason to give up a 1st rounder for that.
I like him, and he could use a change of scenery, but he isn't worth what you are offering.
His contract is actually pretty reasonable and very flippable. I think it’s got positive value and we’d have to give up an asset to get it. The 11th pick in a weak draft seems reasonable.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:05 pm
by Split T
I’d be ok going after AG, I like him. Don’t love him. I’d be hesitant to offer a lotto pick for him though.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:25 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:08 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:37 am
I disagree that Rose is bad money and a marginal talent. $7M this year and another $7M next year for a guy who can still win a game by himself is pretty good value in the NBA right now. I don't necessarily like how he does it, but as a 6th man, with freedom to do Derrick Rose things.. I think it could work.
My comment about bad money was a reference to Tony Snell's inclusion in the deal.
Yeah, his $12M next season is rough.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:29 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
Not only would it require a hefty package of players and picks, but the Suns would be in a tough spot cap wise with Aaron Gordon.
I can only imagine the hand-wringing around here about him if he were traded to the Suns. One of his trademark 10/8 on 30% shooting weeks would probably be enough for people to regret ever wanting to trade for him.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:40 am
by JeremyG
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:53 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:01 am
This isn't meant as Ayton hate, so please don't take this as that, but I know a lot of people have compared Ayton to David Robinson and this clip doesn't make me think that at all. Ayton isn't trying to kill the rim or make athletic and acrobatic runs at the rim like Robinson did regularly. Seriously, could you imagine Ayton getting 52 pts in a game, let alone 71?
Holy SHIT. I didn't realize he was such a beast! I only caught his later playing days when I was younger alongside Duncan. He was more finesse. I wish Ayton was half as physical as Robinson. Not only was he jacked but he was just throwing it down on people! Kind of reminds me of a 7ft Shawn Kemp!
This may surprise you also, but Robinson was labeled as "soft" his entire career.
Re: Suns News: Week 12 1/13-1/19
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:15 am
by SDC
here's how i rank the great centers in the 90s
shaq > hakeem > robinson > ewing > mourning