Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Mori Chu »

Hey, that DeAndre Ayton guy might be pretty good.

I was hoping that Rubae would get a triple-double, but alas, he was two rebounds short. 25, 13, and 8 is a phenomenal stat line. He's clearly on a high as a new father. Good for daddy.

Booker has 29 points and makes it look effortless. He's playing so well during this stretch of the season. That's part of what makes me think this team still has a run left in it.

I really liked the way Cam Johnson played. He had 10 points and 4 rebounds, but more than that he seemed to just get after the ball and hustle. I really like the kid.

It must suck to be a Knicks fan and have to watch their awful team, with Randle and Morris chucking up all the shots. Other than Mitchell Robinson and maybe Barrett, their whole roster is trash.

Here's the box score:

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161256

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by AmareIsGod »

You have to wonder after a game like last night, would you trade Oubre for an athletic PF, a solid backup PG or a dangerous 3 point shooter? I only ask because we were very balanced last night with our Big 3, Booker, Ayton and Rubio. I feel like when Oubre is out there, for all the great things he does, his ball dominance and inability to facilitate plays for his teammates may limit a player like Ayton.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Split T »

phatmike wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:37 am
Watched the game finally... sweet game by DA and Rubio had the new dad strength thing going on. Haha. Honestly, I think Oubre being out benefited DA quite a bit - ball seemed to find him easier. I love Oubre, but the ball tends to stick to him once he gets it.

Team hit that 30 assist mark that Monty likes but still had 19 turnovers... that needs to come down because better teams will take advantage of that.

Looking forward to seeing how the team and DA take this win and build on it. It really does appear that the team and Ayton himself are starting to realize what he can do out there. Was gonna comment on the keeping the blocks inbounds but that was already mentioned. It doesn't get the oohs and ahhs of sending it into the tenth row, but it's a beautiful thing to see executed. Really smart basketball.
Felt like a lot of turnovers in the first Q when we were playing quite sloppy.

I wouldn’t be opposed to keeping this starting lineup and letting Oubre be the anchor offensively in the 2nd unit. I don’t know how Oubre would feel about that. Or maybe make him the first to sub out and bring him back in when Booker sits to keep the offense from total collapse.

Our depth shrunk up real quick. At the beginning of the year I thought we had 8 solid nba rotation guys(Rubio, Booker, Oubre, Bridges, Ayton, TJ, Saric, Baynes). TJ has been garbage all year, Baynes has been pretty bad lately and Saric has been kinda underwhelming. That coupled with the suspension to Ayton and injuries to Baynes/Rubio showed our lack of depth. Cam has been nice at times, but we really need a reliable bench guard. And if Baynes is gonna suck, we need a bench big as well.

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Split T »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:53 am
You have to wonder after a game like last night, would you trade Oubre for an athletic PF, a solid backup PG or a dangerous 3 point shooter? I only ask because we were very balanced last night with our Big 3, Booker, Ayton and Rubio. I feel like when Oubre is out there, for all the great things he does, his ball dominance and inability to facilitate plays for his teammates may limit a player like Ayton.
In theory I think it could be a good idea. I do really like Oubre though. Using him with the 2nd unit could help, not sure how that would go over with him though.

Right now we’ve got 3 guys who can create offense off the dribble, Rubio and Booker can create for themselves and others with Rubio being better at creating for others and Booker better at creating for himself. Oubre really only creates for himself, but it’s still a needed skill to have. It was very apparent in the Hawks game that we need that skill. Without Rubio and Oubre throwing up a dud, our offense was real bad when Booker rested.

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jonh
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by jonh »

Really enjoyed watching this game--felt like a positive step forward, if only for Ayton. It's like he doesn't realize what he can do yet.

I will be interested to see what Ayton (and the team) does on Saturday in a rough environment. Booker has talked about positive momentum a few times. Even in a loss on Saturday, I am hoping for consistent and competitive effort throughout the game.

Dumb question--I wonder if there are stats for a players stats when the team is down? I wonder if risk-averse/tentative players play more relaxed and more aggressive when the team is ahead than when they are behind.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:03 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:53 am
You have to wonder after a game like last night, would you trade Oubre for an athletic PF, a solid backup PG or a dangerous 3 point shooter? I only ask because we were very balanced last night with our Big 3, Booker, Ayton and Rubio. I feel like when Oubre is out there, for all the great things he does, his ball dominance and inability to facilitate plays for his teammates may limit a player like Ayton.
In theory I think it could be a good idea. I do really like Oubre though. Using him with the 2nd unit could help, not sure how that would go over with him though.

Right now we’ve got 3 guys who can create offense off the dribble, Rubio and Booker can create for themselves and others with Rubio being better at creating for others and Booker better at creating for himself. Oubre really only creates for himself, but it’s still a needed skill to have. It was very apparent in the Hawks game that we need that skill. Without Rubio and Oubre throwing up a dud, our offense was real bad when Booker rested.
Yes, but this team has been so awful the last decade, that they market/promote themselves by the individual players they sign. They hosted a freakin fashion show with Oubre at the center. They are embraced Valley Boyzzzzzzz like it was the only thing they had going. So they won't trade him, even if it would make the team better. I would be more shocked by them trading him than I would if Sarver decided to sell tomorrow. Only caveat here would be if he were included as a big package for KAT.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Indy »

jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:10 am
Really enjoyed watching this game--felt like a positive step forward, if only for Ayton. It's like he doesn't realize what he can do yet.

I will be interested to see what Ayton (and the team) does on Saturday in a rough environment. Booker has talked about positive momentum a few times. Even in a loss on Saturday, I am hoping for consistent and competitive effort throughout the game.

Dumb question--I wonder if there are stats for a players stats when the team is down? I wonder if risk-averse/tentative players play more relaxed and more aggressive when the team is ahead than when they are behind.
I am sure the analytics firm the NBA uses has that data. There is the converse of that where they release the crunch time stats of players. I think that is how they fare in the last 5 minutes of a game that is within 5 points or something close to that.

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jonh
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by jonh »

By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Indy »

jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 am
By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.
Meaning he was fouled and it wasn't called, or he fouled others and it wasn't called? Or both? Neither stood out to me watching the game live, though.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by phatmike »

jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 am
By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.
I wouldn't count on it honestly. This team needs to get to the other side of .500 before they are going to get that kind of respect. I mean look at Booker... he has a hard time getting calls...

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jonh
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by jonh »

Indy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:21 am
jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 am
By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.
Meaning he was fouled and it wasn't called, or he fouled others and it wasn't called? Or both? Neither stood out to me watching the game live, though.
I thought he was fouled a few times, and it wasn't called. There was one play in particular where he was surrounded by 4 Knicks, got the rebound and scored without getting fouled that I watched expecting a whistle.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Indy »

phatmike wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:25 am
jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 am
By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.
I wouldn't count on it honestly. This team needs to get to the other side of .500 before they are going to get that kind of respect. I mean look at Booker... he has a hard time getting calls...
I can't complain about the calls Booker gets. He gets a ton of superstar calls. But then he plays like he expects them all the time and throws up 2-3 dumb shots as he is flying out of bounds each game.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Indy »

jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:27 am
Indy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:21 am
jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 am
By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.
Meaning he was fouled and it wasn't called, or he fouled others and it wasn't called? Or both? Neither stood out to me watching the game live, though.
I thought he was fouled a few times, and it wasn't called. There was one play in particular where he was surrounded by 4 Knicks, got the rebound and scored without getting fouled that I watched expecting a whistle.
Ah, there was a couple stretches that I was running around the house and just listening. And we know the broadcast team isn't there to describe what is happening on the court...

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by phatmike »

Indy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:36 am
phatmike wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:25 am
jonh wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:15 am
By the way, I don't know if anyone mentioned, but there were several should-have-been-fouls on Ayton last night. Got to figure if he shows any time of aggressiveness offensively that he will start getting more calls.
I wouldn't count on it honestly. This team needs to get to the other side of .500 before they are going to get that kind of respect. I mean look at Booker... he has a hard time getting calls...
I can't complain about the calls Booker gets. He gets a ton of superstar calls. But then he plays like he expects them all the time and throws up 2-3 dumb shots as he is flying out of bounds each game.
Meh you're probably right. It's gotten better. And he isn't one of those fall down after shooting players who generates those types of calls

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Split T »

Indy wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:14 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:03 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:53 am
You have to wonder after a game like last night, would you trade Oubre for an athletic PF, a solid backup PG or a dangerous 3 point shooter? I only ask because we were very balanced last night with our Big 3, Booker, Ayton and Rubio. I feel like when Oubre is out there, for all the great things he does, his ball dominance and inability to facilitate plays for his teammates may limit a player like Ayton.
In theory I think it could be a good idea. I do really like Oubre though. Using him with the 2nd unit could help, not sure how that would go over with him though.

Right now we’ve got 3 guys who can create offense off the dribble, Rubio and Booker can create for themselves and others with Rubio being better at creating for others and Booker better at creating for himself. Oubre really only creates for himself, but it’s still a needed skill to have. It was very apparent in the Hawks game that we need that skill. Without Rubio and Oubre throwing up a dud, our offense was real bad when Booker rested.
Yes, but this team has been so awful the last decade, that they market/promote themselves by the individual players they sign. They hosted a freakin fashion show with Oubre at the center. They are embraced Valley Boyzzzzzzz like it was the only thing they had going. So they won't trade him, even if it would make the team better. I would be more shocked by them trading him than I would if Sarver decided to sell tomorrow. Only caveat here would be if he were included as a big package for KAT.
Oh I agree. He’s not being moved. Moving him to the bench, or at least getting him in the 2nd unit, is possible though.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Indy »

Yeah, I could see him on the bench and being a 28 mpg guy. I am hoping Saric can be the player he once was and Ayton can do 75% of what he did last night in every game. Then it would be great to have Mikal in the starting line up for his defense (and hopefully 3 point shooting............).

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Superbone »

Here's most of the Breen call on the 60 foot ally-oop:

"Be Legendary."

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Cap
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Cap »

Superbone wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:27 am
Here's most of the Breen call on the 60 foot ally-oop:

A lob to me? Probably not a good idea.

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Pips
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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Pips »

Šarić was doing unreal stupid moves again, another foul on 3 point shot and fight with Booker over rebound which end with easy layup for Knicks was most famous...

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Re: Game Day: Suns (16-24) @ Knicks (11-30), Thurs 1/16/20

Post by Superbone »

Pips wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:11 pm
Šarić was doing unreal stupid moves again, another foul on 3 point shot and fight with Booker over rebound which end with easy layup for Knicks was most famous...
Yeah, that foul really irked me. Put your hands up and be done with it. Don't keep moving forward until you make contact!
"Be Legendary."

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