Suns News: Weeks 16-18 2/10-3/1

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5363
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by INFORMER » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:44 am

Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:10 am
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:45 pm
emerging 3-and-D stud Mikal Bridges
:lol:
It’s not a joke. Why do you find it necessary to downplay the Suns’ players so frequently?
Specific to Bridges, he is barely sniffing 3&D "stud" territory. So I found the statement a little ridiculous. I don't throw around the label "stud" generously; maybe the author has a different concept of what a stud is.

As for rest of the team, I'm not sure what you mean. Fan sites tend overrate their own players; I try to evaluate any player objectively. So maybe that is where your perception comes from. I don't think Rubio is a very good player, but I thought that way before he was a Sun, and I don't see why him being a Sun should change my opinion. I don't think much of Cam Johnson because I thought he was a borderline 1st rounder, and we drafted in the lottery ahead of more talented players; he's James Jones Reloaded, not terrible, but certainly limited. The only other player I think of that might fit your assertion of being downplayed is Ayton; he is super productive but struggles to truly impact the game and remain aggressive. That evaluation is hardly unique to me, though.

Overall, this isn't a good team. Some probably feel differently, which is symptomatic of an organization that has struggled mightily for the last decade. We can hand out passes, contrive excuses, or spin what we're being given as better than it actually is, but ultimately the lack of winning doesn't lie.
2020 Draft: Tyrese Haliburton. Paul Reed. Aaron Nesmith. Desmond Bane. Theo Maledon. Malik Fitts. Jalen Smith. Marcus Zegarowski. Sam Merill. Reggie Perry.

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5363
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by INFORMER » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:47 am

Superbone wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:53 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:10 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:39 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:19 am
I am aware of what the word means. And a sample size of 50 recent shots is not a sample size you should trust, when there are 400 other shots that tell a different story.

I am very hopeful that the recent trend is going to stick, and with it he will be more willing to take open shots (and his teammates will be more willing to pass him the ball to take the open shot). But I am not going to pretend that his best 50 of his 450 3P shots is what he is yet.
Let's not assume the reverse either. Deal?
It isn't an assumption. His career is 33% from 3. It is great he is on a streak the last 50 shots or so. But just because Devin goes on a streak of hitting 50 FTs in a row doesn't make me say is a 100% FT shooter.
OK, you win. He’s horrible and always will be.
What is the point of extremely exaggerating Indy's point? Is that the only way to invalidate it?
2020 Draft: Tyrese Haliburton. Paul Reed. Aaron Nesmith. Desmond Bane. Theo Maledon. Malik Fitts. Jalen Smith. Marcus Zegarowski. Sam Merill. Reggie Perry.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16998
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Superbone » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:06 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:47 am
Superbone wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:53 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:10 pm
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:39 am
Indy wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:19 am
I am aware of what the word means. And a sample size of 50 recent shots is not a sample size you should trust, when there are 400 other shots that tell a different story.

I am very hopeful that the recent trend is going to stick, and with it he will be more willing to take open shots (and his teammates will be more willing to pass him the ball to take the open shot). But I am not going to pretend that his best 50 of his 450 3P shots is what he is yet.
Let's not assume the reverse either. Deal?
It isn't an assumption. His career is 33% from 3. It is great he is on a streak the last 50 shots or so. But just because Devin goes on a streak of hitting 50 FTs in a row doesn't make me say is a 100% FT shooter.
OK, you win. He’s horrible and always will be.
What is the point of extremely exaggerating Indy's point? Is that the only way to invalidate it?
No, but I'm not going to take the time to go back and forth on it. That would be a waste of time.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5363
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by INFORMER » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:29 pm

I agree, you certainly aren't obligated to engage in a prolonged back and forth. I just feel the exaggeration is beneath you and misrepresents Indy's point.

Ultimately, I don't think there is that big of a divide between the points of view. One side sees the small sample size as clear enough indication that Bridges is closing in on being a 3&D stud. The other side acknowledges it is an encouraging trend, but it just isn't a substantial to make any definitive projection.
2020 Draft: Tyrese Haliburton. Paul Reed. Aaron Nesmith. Desmond Bane. Theo Maledon. Malik Fitts. Jalen Smith. Marcus Zegarowski. Sam Merill. Reggie Perry.

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5363
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by INFORMER » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:37 pm

ShelC wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am
I am wondering about Tristan Thompson, whom JJ played with in Cleveland. Don't love his game or his fit unless it's at the right price and he's coming off the bench, which seems far fetched.
I rethinking this. When you first brought it up, I had no interest. But he might be a worthwhile free agent target. One issue will be his agent his Rich Paul.

I don't think Thompson will care about coming off the bench; I'm just afraid of his asking price. He is a MLE type guy, but he may go searching for an Al Hordford deal (which looked bad at the time, and looks even worse now).

One interesting development is that Thompson has started to take and make 3s.
2020 Draft: Tyrese Haliburton. Paul Reed. Aaron Nesmith. Desmond Bane. Theo Maledon. Malik Fitts. Jalen Smith. Marcus Zegarowski. Sam Merill. Reggie Perry.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16998
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Superbone » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:42 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:29 pm
I agree, you certainly aren't obligated to engage in a prolonged back and forth. I just feel the exaggeration is beneath you and misrepresents Indy's point.

Ultimately, I don't think there is that big of a divide between the points of view. One side sees the small sample size as clear enough indication that Bridges is closing in on being a 3&D stud. The other side acknowledges it is an encouraging trend, but it just isn't a substantial to make any definitive projection.
Fair enough.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6134
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by In2ition » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:19 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:44 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:10 am
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:45 pm
emerging 3-and-D stud Mikal Bridges
:lol:
It’s not a joke. Why do you find it necessary to downplay the Suns’ players so frequently?
Specific to Bridges, he is barely sniffing 3&D "stud" territory. So I found the statement a little ridiculous. I don't throw around the label "stud" generously; maybe the offer has a different concept of what a stud is.

As for rest of the team, I'm not sure what you mean. Fan sites tend overrate their own players; I try to evaluate any player objectively. So maybe that is where your perception comes from. I don't think Rubio is a very good player, but I thought that way before he was a Sun, and I don't see why him being a Sun should change my opinion. I don't think much of Cam Johnson because I thought he was a borderline 1st rounder, and we drafted in the lottery ahead of more talented players; he's James Jones Reloaded, not terrible, but certainly limited. The only other player I think of that might fit your assertion of being downplayed is Ayton; he is super productive but struggles to truly impact the game and remain aggressive. That evaluation is hardly unique to me, though.

Overall, this isn't a good team. Some probably feel differently, which is symptomatic of an organization that has struggled mightily for the last decade. We can hand out passes, contrive excuses, or spin what we're being given as better than it actually is, but ultimately the lack of winning doesn't lie.
This might be entirely unfair, but when I read this post the voice that came to me with you speaking this out loud was an extremely arrogant and condescending tone.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16998
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Superbone » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:04 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:19 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:44 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:10 am
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:45 pm
emerging 3-and-D stud Mikal Bridges
:lol:
It’s not a joke. Why do you find it necessary to downplay the Suns’ players so frequently?
Specific to Bridges, he is barely sniffing 3&D "stud" territory. So I found the statement a little ridiculous. I don't throw around the label "stud" generously; maybe the offer has a different concept of what a stud is.

As for rest of the team, I'm not sure what you mean. Fan sites tend overrate their own players; I try to evaluate any player objectively. So maybe that is where your perception comes from. I don't think Rubio is a very good player, but I thought that way before he was a Sun, and I don't see why him being a Sun should change my opinion. I don't think much of Cam Johnson because I thought he was a borderline 1st rounder, and we drafted in the lottery ahead of more talented players; he's James Jones Reloaded, not terrible, but certainly limited. The only other player I think of that might fit your assertion of being downplayed is Ayton; he is super productive but struggles to truly impact the game and remain aggressive. That evaluation is hardly unique to me, though.

Overall, this isn't a good team. Some probably feel differently, which is symptomatic of an organization that has struggled mightily for the last decade. We can hand out passes, contrive excuses, or spin what we're being given as better than it actually is, but ultimately the lack of winning doesn't lie.
This might be entirely unfair, but when I read this post the voice that came to me with you speaking this out loud was an extremely arrogant and condescending tone.
And no mention of our lack of depth due to suspension and injury forcing us to play pieces out of position for much of the year and severely impacting our bench.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3973
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by specialsauce » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:14 pm

We still lack depth even with the injured players back. Our lack of depth isn’t a health problem, it’s a personnel issue. We have 2 core pieces, a potential complement, a 6th man who is starting, a rookie who can hit some 3s and a bunch of significantly flawed pieces otherwise. Development, time, patience, none of those will fix that. Which makes the front office complacency so frustrating.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 6134
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by In2ition » Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:42 pm

I agree they need another scorer/creator, also a competent backup PG(I would like an upgrade to Ricky), a starting PF difference maker, a backup PF, and if they are thinking Baynes is gone, a decent backup C.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5363
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by INFORMER » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:15 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:19 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:44 am
Superbone wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:10 am
INFORMER wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:45 pm
emerging 3-and-D stud Mikal Bridges
:lol:
It’s not a joke. Why do you find it necessary to downplay the Suns’ players so frequently?
Specific to Bridges, he is barely sniffing 3&D "stud" territory. So I found the statement a little ridiculous. I don't throw around the label "stud" generously; maybe the offer has a different concept of what a stud is.

As for rest of the team, I'm not sure what you mean. Fan sites tend overrate their own players; I try to evaluate any player objectively. So maybe that is where your perception comes from. I don't think Rubio is a very good player, but I thought that way before he was a Sun, and I don't see why him being a Sun should change my opinion. I don't think much of Cam Johnson because I thought he was a borderline 1st rounder, and we drafted in the lottery ahead of more talented players; he's James Jones Reloaded, not terrible, but certainly limited. The only other player I think of that might fit your assertion of being downplayed is Ayton; he is super productive but struggles to truly impact the game and remain aggressive. That evaluation is hardly unique to me, though.

Overall, this isn't a good team. Some probably feel differently, which is symptomatic of an organization that has struggled mightily for the last decade. We can hand out passes, contrive excuses, or spin what we're being given as better than it actually is, but ultimately the lack of winning doesn't lie.
This might be entirely unfair, but when I read this post the voice that came to me with you speaking this out loud was an extremely arrogant and condescending tone.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be.
2020 Draft: Tyrese Haliburton. Paul Reed. Aaron Nesmith. Desmond Bane. Theo Maledon. Malik Fitts. Jalen Smith. Marcus Zegarowski. Sam Merill. Reggie Perry.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 10943
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:01 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:19 pm
This might be entirely unfair, but when I read this post the voice that came to me with you speaking this out loud was an extremely arrogant and condescending tone.
I don't agree with that. To me it read as INF just stating his opinion.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16998
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Superbone » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:10 pm

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 16998
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Superbone » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:13 pm

Stats tailor made for Cap:

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 3154
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Nodack » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:47 pm

Wasn’t 27-0 a cubby quote? One of the tweets said that.

User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 4658
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Ring_Wanted » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:59 am


User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 4658
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by Ring_Wanted » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:50 am

Beyond Ayton's obvious imporovement on defense, I am happy that our best lineup is made of five players under contract for next season.

Now, the next jump should come from adding better rotation players than those already in place, which in theory is not hard when you look at Baynes, Saric, Kaminsky, Diallo, Carter, Okobo and Jerome.

But in practice, you have less than 30M to get a starter quality PF, a backup PG and a backup C/PF.

Not wasting the 2020 1stR and getting a contributor out of it would be huge, but it remains to be seen and JJones doesn't inspire a lot of confidence to me.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 3973
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by specialsauce » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:49 am

And jokers trying to say Ayton isn’t an impact player.

Ayton is the best all around player from his draft. He may not have the glam, but he’s a 2 way player. It’s what it is.

User avatar
3rdside
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:59 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by 3rdside » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:54 am

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:59 am
I read somewhere this is a bit biased as the opposition players this unit has faced aren't that strong .. but positive news is good news ...

User avatar
3rdside
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:59 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Suns News: Week 16 2/10-2/16

Post by 3rdside » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:55 am

My favourite Ryan McD genius ever:


Post Reply