NBA Draft 2020

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Shabazz
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Shabazz » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:46 am

3rdside wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:43 am
They're different guys - Johnson's 6'8" with a 6'10" wingspan, Herro is 6'5" with a 6'3" wingspan - so I'd find it hard to say they're similar.

And cam is sneaky athletic as well ("He posted the event’s fifth-best lane agility time, nearly matched Little’s standing vertical at 30.5 inches, and went for the ninth-best max vertical at 36.5 inches") so it's not like Herro's got that on him either.
And somehow Tyler Herro had a higher rebound rate.

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 am

INFORMER wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:26 pm
In2ition wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:17 pm
I think Cam was better than Washington this yr and has a skill that is more valuable and ability to become elite at it in the league.
I don't understand what any of that is based on.

Washington is younger, stronger, and plays a position of need for us. Cam is the heralded shooter, but he only shot 2% higher from distance than Washington.

I feel like this like going back to 2006 and making an argument that James Jones is better than David West.
Look at the per 36 numbers, they weren't much different and if you compare the advanced stats, Cam beats him.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:54 am

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 am
INFORMER wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:26 pm
In2ition wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:17 pm
I think Cam was better than Washington this yr and has a skill that is more valuable and ability to become elite at it in the league.
I don't understand what any of that is based on.

Washington is younger, stronger, and plays a position of need for us. Cam is the heralded shooter, but he only shot 2% higher from distance than Washington.

I feel like this like going back to 2006 and making an argument that James Jones is better than David West.
Look at the per 36 numbers, they weren't much different and if you compare the advanced stats, Cam beats him.
Having thought about that combine comment and seeing this ... I'm not so sure I'd make the CJ-PJ trade.
Last edited by 3rdside on Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:56 am

INFORMER wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:27 pm
In2ition wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:17 pm
Needs to put on strength and weight though.
I feel like that is an understatement.

His handles are ridiculous though. But he has very little experience. He played in the second-tier of the Greek league. I don't think there is any way James Jones even considers drafting him. It's a shame though; definitely seems worthy of consideration.
Strength yes, but he doesn't need a ton of weight. He's listed at 205, but I would say his ideal weight right now would be 220. So if he could add 15-25 lbs of muscle while cutting 0-10 lbs of fat, that would put him in a good position. You want to keep and enhance his quickness. This is entirely doable and expected for an 18 yr old. Compare him to the ESPN top HS player of 2021, Chet Holmgren. He has a better feel and a slightly better handle, but maybe a little worse shot. The defense and defensive instints are way better than Holmgren though. Both are extremely skinny.

It's not just his handles, which are very impressive, but his feel, passing and shooting on the move are the most impressive as they tend to better predict a player translating and thriving at much higher levels.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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ShelC
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by ShelC » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:59 am

We won't need PJ Washington when we sign GIannis. We'll need Cam's shooting tho ;)

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Mori Chu
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:16 am

I really like Cam. His 3-point shooting is great and needed on this team; I felt like he was the one guy on our team who was almost automatic when he'd rise up for an open 3. I also was pleasantly surprised by his athleticism and defense. I think he's a keeper and wouldn't trade him for the other guys listed.

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O_Gardino
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by O_Gardino » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:43 am

I wouldn't trade Cam for Washington.

PJ is an undersized PF who doesn't rebound well and isn't a good ft shooter. It's tempting to want him because he plays a position of need, but then you've got a mediocre guy at that position. I just don't see him turning into an allstar like West.

Cam fills a different role, but he fills it excellently. As Mori said, Cam defended better than advertised and went to the basket better than advertised. Cam is better than James Jones. Jones was never mentally prepared and looked a little hesitant to shoot in our high paced offence. Cam is a killer. Opposing coaches are going to call time out any time a Cam gets an open shot.
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ShelC
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by ShelC » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:47 am

Jones was one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched. Cam's a knockdown shooter. That's his expertise. I liked his slashing, his defense was sound but he's going to make a living as shooter.

And I was mistaken with Herro, thoguht he was closer to 6-7, 6-8 ala Mike Miller.

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INFORMER
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by INFORMER » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 pm

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 am
INFORMER wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:26 pm
In2ition wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:17 pm
I think Cam was better than Washington this yr and has a skill that is more valuable and ability to become elite at it in the league.
I don't understand what any of that is based on.

Washington is younger, stronger, and plays a position of need for us. Cam is the heralded shooter, but he only shot 2% higher from distance than Washington.

I feel like this like going back to 2006 and making an argument that James Jones is better than David West.
Look at the per 36 numbers
I did. Their scoring is the same, but Washington beats him in assists and rebounding. And again, Washington is younger.
2020 Draft: Aaron Nesmith - Paul Reed - Reggie Perry - Jalen Smith - Desmond Bane - Rayshaun Hammonds - Sam Merrill - Tre Jones - Tyler Bey

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INFORMER
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by INFORMER » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:30 pm

On another note, In2, why are you not touting Arturs Zagars anymore? Seems like he had a good year.
2020 Draft: Aaron Nesmith - Paul Reed - Reggie Perry - Jalen Smith - Desmond Bane - Rayshaun Hammonds - Sam Merrill - Tre Jones - Tyler Bey

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:43 am

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:30 pm
On another note, In2, why are you not touting Arturs Zagars anymore? Seems like he had a good year.
I still like him, it just seems that he's fallen off everyone else's radar, I don't know if he's entering the draft, and I was hoping that he could be picked up as an UDFA. He did have some injury problems lately, and I was hoping that he would put on just a little bit of muscle, but haven't seen that.

I thought that Merrill was going to go undrafted too, but looks like Hollinger and Vecenie are on to him.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm

This debate came up between myself and a suns fan I follow on twitter. I was just interested in all of your opinions on this.

Can you have too many playmakers/facilitators on the floor together?
Is it only optimal to have only 1 or 2 on the floor at the same time?
Do 3 facilitators handcuff a team, because you only have one ball?

I'm curious if there is an example of having a team with too many. Does anyone have one?
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Indy
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Indy » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:41 pm

In2ition wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm
This debate came up between myself and a suns fan I follow on twitter. I was just interested in all of your opinions on this.

Can you have too many playmakers/facilitators on the floor together?
Is it only optimal to have only 1 or 2 on the floor at the same time?
Do 3 facilitators handcuff a team, because you only have one ball?

I'm curious if there is an example of having a team with too many. Does anyone have one?
The ONLY way that would be a problem is if the facilitators were not good at anything else. Meaning they need to have the ball in their hands to be effective. For example, Rubio falls into this bucket. He isn't good at anything else. But if the other facilitators can play basketball at an above average clip in at least 1 other area (shooting, cutting, rebounding, screening, defending) and are not well below average for the others, how can it be bad?

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:05 pm

Indy wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:41 pm
In2ition wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm
This debate came up between myself and a suns fan I follow on twitter. I was just interested in all of your opinions on this.

Can you have too many playmakers/facilitators on the floor together?
Is it only optimal to have only 1 or 2 on the floor at the same time?
Do 3 facilitators handcuff a team, because you only have one ball?

I'm curious if there is an example of having a team with too many. Does anyone have one?
The ONLY way that would be a problem is if the facilitators were not good at anything else. Meaning they need to have the ball in their hands to be effective. For example, Rubio falls into this bucket. He isn't good at anything else. But if the other facilitators can play basketball at an above average clip in at least 1 other area (shooting, cutting, rebounding, screening, defending) and are not well below average for the others, how can it be bad?
I agree with that.



Maybe I should wait to see what everyone's opinion is on this.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Split T
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Split T » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Agree with Indy. It’s only a problem if they are a liability off the ball. So a team of Rubio/Westbrook/Derozan/Simmons/Draymond would struggle offensively, but a team like Curry/Holiday/Luka/Lebron/Jokic would dominate offensively.
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ShelC
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by ShelC » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:41 pm

I think the best teams usually have multiple playmakers, not necessarily guards, on the floor all helping the team get assists. I usually refer back to the 7SOL years and how teams knew if they controlled Nash, they stood a very good chance at beating us because he made our offense work. We fared better when we had Boris, JJ, Hill on the floor as additional ballhandlers/playmakers. But like Indy said, you can't have 3 Rubios out there either.

It kind of goes back to the positionless idea where all 5 players can dribble/pass/shoot so you're not reliant on just one guy doing everything. But I also didn't like the idea of Bledsoe, Goran and IT playing together because I wasn't a huge fan of Bledsoe off the ball and IT was so ball dominant as a scorer. So the pieces have to fit well too.
Last edited by ShelC on Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mori Chu
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:50 pm

In2ition wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm
This debate came up between myself and a suns fan I follow on twitter. I was just interested in all of your opinions on this.

Can you have too many playmakers/facilitators on the floor together?
Is it only optimal to have only 1 or 2 on the floor at the same time?
Do 3 facilitators handcuff a team, because you only have one ball?

I'm curious if there is an example of having a team with too many. Does anyone have one?
I agree with some of the others' replies. My red flag is when a guy is called a "playmaker" as a euphemism for a ballhog. He "makes plays" by running around for 20 sec and then maybe passing or driving to the basket. You don't need 3-4 guys like that on the floor. If you mean a "playmaker" like a true passer who moves the ball quickly and intelligently, sure, give me as many as you've got. And especially if they have other elite skills like shooting or defense.

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:50 pm
In2ition wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 pm
This debate came up between myself and a suns fan I follow on twitter. I was just interested in all of your opinions on this.

Can you have too many playmakers/facilitators on the floor together?
Is it only optimal to have only 1 or 2 on the floor at the same time?
Do 3 facilitators handcuff a team, because you only have one ball?

I'm curious if there is an example of having a team with too many. Does anyone have one?
I agree with some of the others' replies. My red flag is when a guy is called a "playmaker" as a euphemism for a ballhog. He "makes plays" by running around for 20 sec and then maybe passing or driving to the basket. You don't need 3-4 guys like that on the floor. If you mean a "playmaker" like a true passer who moves the ball quickly and intelligently, sure, give me as many as you've got. And especially if they have other elite skills like shooting or defense.
Ballhogs, ball stoppers, and ball pounders don't interest me so much.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:13 am

Looking at less heralded PGs prospects; not for #10, but in case we could acquire a lower pick to groom a backup PG. Looking at good 3pt volume and %s, and assists too.

Cassius Winston (Lowry vibes?), Ashton Hagans, Malachi Flynn and Payton Pritchard.

I am fine with Carter as a third string, but I don't see Okobo or Jerome reaching the level of a dependable primary backup PG; and Leque feels like years from being ready (although I wonder at what range he'd be projected if he was in this draft).

Does anyone have an opinion?

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ShelC
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by ShelC » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:02 am

I still have no idea what to make of Lecque, other than he's really athletic and can score getting to the basket. I like both Okobo and Carter in their respective roles, but would upgrade if we can get a heady college vet PG who can shoot.

It sucks for younger players like Jerome who won't get a full offseason and Summer League of work now. And I don't know if the Suns thought Jerome would end up a contributor or just wanted a veteran-ish, winning player on the roster for the lockerroom and practice.

On a side note, this upcoming week would be the actual draft. Breaks the heart.

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