NBA Draft 2020

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Superbone
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Superbone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am

3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm
If anyone cares (a valid question considering the self promotion taking place here .. ) I was the school champion of Hong Kong - not the largest country in the world but still with a population of about 6m at the time (1996), more than any of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Norway, Denmark or New Zealand have today (heh, I just looked that up; not bad at all even though Asians are smaller ..)
So, we're just now finding out that we have a star athlete amongst us? :)
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:55 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:11 am
3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm
If anyone cares (a valid question considering the self promotion taking place here .. ) I was the school champion of Hong Kong - not the largest country in the world but still with a population of about 6m at the time (1996), more than any of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Norway, Denmark or New Zealand have today (heh, I just looked that up; not bad at all even though Asians are smaller ..)
So, we're just now finding out that we have a star athlete amongst us? :)
Would have been one of the greats! (with the ego to match apparently, coupled with a possible attention seeking disorder :) )

Barring injury I would have strolled into pro-tennis on the back of hand/eye coordination, foot speed, agility and physical frame, but could have given cricket, football (soccer) and basketball a decent crack .. lucky for my desk job I wrecked my shoulder as a teenager.

That said, growing up in Hong Kong back then was a serious limitation - no solid programs and it was far too easy to be distracted by socialising as HK is probably the most sociable place in the world, and parents who were massive socialisers who had no idea about pro sports as a career didn't help either.

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Vladimir_Taltos
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:42 am

Coming into discussion late, but given how this year has gone....meh.

- It feels to me as though the needs are PF and PG
- It does not feel like they.can get a fit outside of say the top 7 at either position, but inside that maybe.
So...i

- Ideas on any kind of potential movement to get into the top 7?
- PG to me should be Hayes
- PF... thoughts?

VT

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Split T
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Split T » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:10 am

Patrick Williams is very interesting to me if we can address guard in free agency.
Tyrese Haliburton • Killian Hayes • Aaron Nesmith • Tyrell Terry • Patrick Williams • RJ Hampton • Kira Lewis • Alexsej Pokusevski

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:35 am

Vladimir_Taltos wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:42 am
Coming into discussion late, but given how this year has gone....meh.

- It feels to me as though the needs are PF and PG
- It does not feel like they.can get a fit outside of say the top 7 at either position, but inside that maybe.
So...i

- Ideas on any kind of potential movement to get into the top 7?
- PG to me should be Hayes
- PF... thoughts?

VT
A combo guard is higher priority as Oubre can play the 4, and with Johnson and Saric we're pretty good there.

So Hayes or Haliburton in that order (assuming Ball is gone, but his shooting stats worry me anyway) with some mocks having Haliburton fall to us. If we can trade up to guarantee one of them, that seems a solid move.

Hayes looks like a proper facilitator, just like Rubio, and would be ideal to continue the pass first theme when Rubio is on the bench, with nearly no one in the league better at teaching him how to do it than Rubio himself.

It's not a great leap forward but I don't think we need that - our best starting five (Rubio-Booker-Bridges-Oubre-Ayton) barely played with each other last season but when they did they were very good, so I see no real incentive to mix it up unless there's an obvious improvement for the right price, which I'm not sure there is.

And with the virus hanging around we may be able to get a relative bargain at the 4 next summer anyway - Oubre himself, for example, or someone else.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:21 am

If Milwaukee tank next year and the Suns look good and Ayton decent then a trade around him and Giannis is the dream move for us.

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Vladimir_Taltos
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:07 pm

Given Hayes young age, getting him and having the chance to develop seems like an ideal goal...but I don't think we're going to get him if we ddon't move up...

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:46 pm

3rdside wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:21 am
If Milwaukee tank next year and the Suns look good and Ayton decent then a trade around him and Giannis is the dream move for us.
Not to get too carried away with hypotheticals but you have to question what on earth the Bucks‘s FO were doing prioritising Bledsoe (directly or otherwise) over a 50/40/90 guy in Brogdon who throws a ton of assists.

It either bodes well for us as that they might screw this season up or, more likely, they throw the future team under the bus by going all in on lopsided trade that includes getting rid of Bledsoe, which doesn’t.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:50 pm

Vladimir_Taltos wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:07 pm
Given Hayes young age, getting him and having the chance to develop seems like an ideal goal...but I don't think we're going to get him if we ddon't move up...
I really like the look of Hayes and yeah we’ll have to do something big to get him. But, unusually, there’s a combo guard who I’d be nearly as happy with in the same draft in Haliburton who should cost us less and ideally nothing.

Hayes is more like a point guard than a combo guard but at that height and with Booker and Rubio he can play off the ball no problem.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:03 pm

Interesting that Tankathon have Hayes listed as a PG/SG but Haliburton as a PG only .. would have thought it the other way around if anything, or at least both with the PG/SG label.

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virtual9mm
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by virtual9mm » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:01 pm

3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm
If anyone cares (a valid question considering the self promotion taking place here .. ) I was the school champion of Hong Kong - not the largest country in the world but still with a population of about 6m at the time (1996), more than any of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Norway, Denmark or New Zealand have today (heh, I just looked that up; not bad at all even though Asians are smaller ..)
Living in HK now this is fascinating. I would laugh if you were like a DBS or HKIS old boy haha

Edit: too many gala dinners and all day family din sums I bet

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:52 pm

virtual9mm wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:01 pm
3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm
If anyone cares (a valid question considering the self promotion taking place here .. ) I was the school champion of Hong Kong - not the largest country in the world but still with a population of about 6m at the time (1996), more than any of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Norway, Denmark or New Zealand have today (heh, I just looked that up; not bad at all even though Asians are smaller ..)
Living in HK now this is fascinating. I would laugh if you were like a DBS or HKIS old boy haha

Edit: too many gala dinners and all day family din sums I bet
IS old boy - used to play cricket at DBS and get into *a lot* of trouble with the HKIS lads.

And that's a yes on dim sum and gala dinners, haha ..

You're at HKU right? Did you grow up in HK? Was there '77-'97 ...

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virtual9mm
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by virtual9mm » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:43 pm

3rdside wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:52 pm
virtual9mm wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:01 pm
3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:31 pm
If anyone cares (a valid question considering the self promotion taking place here .. ) I was the school champion of Hong Kong - not the largest country in the world but still with a population of about 6m at the time (1996), more than any of Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Norway, Denmark or New Zealand have today (heh, I just looked that up; not bad at all even though Asians are smaller ..)
Living in HK now this is fascinating. I would laugh if you were like a DBS or HKIS old boy haha

Edit: too many gala dinners and all day family din sums I bet
IS old boy - used to play cricket at DBS and get into *a lot* of trouble with the HKIS lads.

And that's a yes on dim sum and gala dinners, haha ..

You're at HKU right? Did you grow up in HK? Was there '77-'97 ...
LOL small world. I hang out with one of the department chairs at DBS, who is a HKIS old boy. I don't do much of the gala dinners although I do take up the dim sum invites often.

I teach at HKUST but my wife's folks are HKU alums so I get pulled into that circle at times. I'm actually from AZ -- came here for a job, found a nice Hongkouverite and have settled down here.

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3rdside
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by 3rdside » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:39 pm

Nice work on settling down - without fail every expat I meet who used to live in HK wishes they were still there; the funnest place ever and the only city an introvert can turn up to and within a year have 20 new best friends.

All my friends wish they were back there also but can't get their head around it financially - I could if I wanted to (work in finance) but my respiratory system hates pollution so instead am working on a plan to do business up there while based here in Sydney.

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virtual9mm
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by virtual9mm » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:49 am

3rdside wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:39 pm
Nice work on settling down - without fail every expat I meet who used to live in HK wishes they were still there; the funnest place ever and the only city an introvert can turn up to and within a year have 20 new best friends.

All my friends wish they were back there also but can't get their head around it financially - I could if I wanted to (work in finance) but my respiratory system hates pollution so instead am working on a plan to do business up there while based here in Sydney.
I think it is a great city for extroverts, kind of a shitty place for introverts and dreamers. I used to hate it. But now I have a nice place in a village house in Clear Water Bay and seldom go into Central. It is fine and I don't have to worry about COVID at least.

Ironically, it works fantastic financially. The tax rates here plus the US expat deductions make the effective tax rate low enough to get by.

How is Sydney treating you? I spent a month there last summer/winter there. Love the ice cream.

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Split T
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Split T » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:20 pm

Listened to the game theory podcast and they did a mock draft, taking turns making picks. Sam Vecenie picked for the Suns and took Obi Toppin. I’m not sure there is a realistic scenario where he drops that far, but I would buy in.
Tyrese Haliburton • Killian Hayes • Aaron Nesmith • Tyrell Terry • Patrick Williams • RJ Hampton • Kira Lewis • Alexsej Pokusevski

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:52 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:20 pm
Listened to the game theory podcast and they did a mock draft, taking turns making picks. Sam Vecenie picked for the Suns and took Obi Toppin. I’m not sure there is a realistic scenario where he drops that far, but I would buy in.
I think I would be ok with that too. I would hope that they could figure out how to improve his lateral quickness and defense.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Shabazz
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Shabazz » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:09 pm

Not the cleanest fit, but I think he’d be great value at #10.

It seems like someone slides every year. I hope we hold on to the pick until we know for sure who’ll be there.

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Split T
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by Split T » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:14 pm

Ya, Sam Vecenie mentioned that he’s a believer in Ayton defensively. Thinks that Toppin next to Bridges and Ayton can cover up his defensive shortcomings. He’s really good offensively.
Tyrese Haliburton • Killian Hayes • Aaron Nesmith • Tyrell Terry • Patrick Williams • RJ Hampton • Kira Lewis • Alexsej Pokusevski

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In2ition
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Re: NBA Draft 2020

Post by In2ition » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:58 pm

Killian Hayes' trainer: 'Not a lot of point guards can pass the ball like he can'
Tyshawn Patterson, who works with Hayes on skill development, breaks down the 19-year-old French prospect.

Gina Mizell
Oct 19

With about a month remaining until the NBA Draft, Valley Tales will publish a series of profiles on prospects that could be a fit for the Suns, featuring exclusive interviews with a college coach or personal trainer.

These are the people who discovered and recruited these players, who were around them every day, who observed their development into a potential lottery pick. Sure, these coaches/trainers want to support their guy, but I also generally found them to be honest about where their player needed to improve to have a successful NBA career.

Killian Hayes is an intriguing point-guard prospect because of his passing ability and defensive potential. The 19-year-old Frenchman has already been playing professionally overseas, most recently for Ulm in Germany. Tyshawn Patterson, an Orlando-based skills development trainer, has been working with Hayes for nearly three years.

These responses are edited slightly for length and clarity.

First impression
Sixteen-year-old Killian, that was his first year of playing professionally. So he had the professional demeanor, but he also knew that there was a lot of things that he wanted to get better at. He was still a kid trying to figure it out, whether it was shooting technique or ballhandling drills. … I’ve seen him grow up. I’ve seen him mature. The main thing for a kid at his age is realizing that they have to get better, and what it is exactly that they have to get better at. So I’ve watched him pinpoint things that he knows he has to get better at, and attack those weaknesses. It’s been pretty (cool) to watch every day, every week, him grow and get better. His determination is like no other kid. From 16 to 19, to where he’s at now, it’s been a huge upside and elevation from where he started.

Strengths
Where he’s really gonna stand out in the NBA is the court is so much bigger and (has) so much more space than playing overseas. And there’s no three seconds in the key (violation). You can sit in the paint. He’s gonna have more space to get guys the ball (in the NBA). He can really pass the basketball, and that’s what’s gonna separate him from a lot of other point guards, whether in the draft or in the league right now. His feel for the game is real good, and it’s only gonna get better. Not a lot of point guards can pass the ball like he can. You see the game today, it’s a lot of scoring point guards. You’ve got Donovan Mitchell. You’ve got James Harden. You’ve got Russell Westbrook, who likes to score. But Killian’s different. He really likes to pass. He can score, but he really can pass. I think that’s what a lot of teams are missing, the pass-first point guard. But he can also make the midrange pull-up, which is a lost art in the game now. That’s really a part of his game. And he’s been improving drastically on his 3-point shot. He’s a kid that tries to figure out his technique, and once he continues to grow and get better and improve his range and his shooting, I think he’s really gonna be hard to guard at the next level — especially within the next year or two years as he gets that feel for the (NBA).

Biggest improvement over past three years
As he got older, from 16 to 17, he got stronger. He got smarter. He got faster with certain things. He started picking up on concepts a lot faster. From 17 to 18, the same thing. He picked them up a little bit faster. He’s a kid that picks up things real fast. He’s probably one of the hardest guys to continue to keep workouts coming, because he picks up things so quickly and then he tries to master them so fast. … From last summer to this summer, he took a big jump when it comes to picking up concepts better. I can show him a drill one time and he’s like, “OK, I got it.” Maybe three times max, and he has it. Whether it’s a ball manipulation combo series or it’s a shooting series, I just have to explain it to him once or twice and he gets it. I have to take into consideration he’s 18 or 19 years old now. Even when he was 16 or 17, I didn’t have to explain a lot to him, and that’s special. That means he can pick up. When he plays basketball, he’ll be able to read the defensive quicker. He’ll be able to make offensive adjustments quicker. And that’s why he can pass the ball so good in the pick and roll, because he can make adjustments on the fly. That’s what he’s really, really special at that I believe the NBA is gonna see soon. That’s gonna set him apart for many years.


First thing he would show someone unfamiliar with Hayes’ game
The main thing I would show people is pick-and-roll ability. It was (ESPN’S) Mike Schmitz that did a great breakdown on him, and you can see his passing ability when he was playing at 18 years old. That’s the special part. Whether it’s coming off the pick and going to the left and making a cross-screen pass all the way to the right corner, or going to his right and throwing the lob to the big man, he can just really read the pick and roll.

Underrated trait
He’s a strong kid. His defense is talked about a lot. He can really sit down and lock in. He’s extremely crafty. He has great footwork. As a lefty, a lot of guys aren’t used to guarding left-handed guards. He’s very shifty and he has great footwork.

Next developmental step
As the skill coach, one of our main targets was shooting. Just mentally locking in and just making 3-pointers consistently. If a guard goes under (the screen), having the confidence to knock it down. He has all the attributes, all the techniques. Now, it’s just having the confidence to knock down those shots eight out of 10 times. Seven out of 10, at a minimum. That’s just the main focus for us. I really think he has all the other attributes. I think he’s gonna get better, especially playing in the best league in the world, as he gets older with reps and experience with the best players in the world. It’s just that mental confidence, just knocking down those shots time after time after time — whether it’s an open 3, a catch-and-shoot or coming off a screen and the guard goes under.

Ideal NBA fit
Honestly, because I believe he’s so versatile, I think he can play in a run-and-gun system and really get guys the ball that are running the wing or running to the deep corner. If he plays in a system like the Spurs’, he would be really good (with) lot of ball movement. The reason behind that is because he can really pass the ball. The only reason I say those two types of systems is because, if I told you to think of a pass-first point guard right now in the NBA, it’s not that big of a list. I believe that’s really gonna help him stand out, and I believe that’s what’s gonna help Killian be able to adjust on any team that he plays for. He could go play for a Spurs-type of team, or a run-and-gun type of team that shoots a lot of 3s like the Warriors. You can’t really pick your poison with him, because I think he’s that talented of a passer. He can help any team.

Personality
He’s a great guy. He’s still a kid. He’s adjusting. He likes to do things that 18- and 19-year-olds like to do. He plays video games. We went bowling (a few nights ago). We’ll go to amusement parks. Ride dirt bikes and ATVs. He’s very adventurous. The main thing is work out, eat food and play video games. He’s very easygoing. He has a great personality. He’s not, like, the loud, energetic kid. But he’s the quiet leader. He’s soft-spoken. He’s quiet. He’ll get his point across. We’ll work, and then we’ll get out of the gym. He comes to work and he does his job very well. And then he goes home, and we come back and we do it the next day. If he doesn’t complete something, he’s ready to come back the next day and go at it a little bit harder. He’s a very determined kid, and he’s gonna be very special in the NBA.

More Suns draft prospect profiles
Tyrese Haliburton (with Iowa State assistant Daniyal Robinson)
Desmond Bane (with TCU assistant Ryan Miller)


This kid feels like he's going to have a Booker type improvement arc. Very pro attitude right away. Not a lot of non-sense.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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