Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by The Bobster » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:13 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:55 am
I'm just stating the facts, man. You think he'll ever learn to dunk the ball rather than laying it in most of the time and sometimes coming up empty?
Big flaw and I am not optimistic either. Boy it is this simple: one power bounce with two hands, clamp the ball, BEND THE KNESS and jump straight to the basket while holding the ball up with both hands.
He's fine not dunking the ball, the problem is that he brings it down in traffic where they can strip it from him.

I think the 7 turnovers broke down something like this - two offensive fouls, a couple of questionable passes to him in traffic where he had to put the ball on the court and got stripped, and three or four times where he just brought the ball down where it negates the advantage of being 7' tall.

Still, if you're grabbing 10 offensive rebounds and keeping so many possessions alive down the stretch, I can live with that as long as he learns from it.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:14 pm

But the truth is Ayton was really good the second half and the biggest responsible for the win.

One thing I like to see positively is that even when he looks like he is doing terrible, he is still productive; You watch him and it leaves sometimes an ashy taste in your mouth, yet when you chueck he has like 12 points 7 rebounds, 1+ stock. This tends to be just taken for granted, all things count and it keeps you alive. We can afford to believe even if he is not Doncic or Young. He just needs to become the best Ayton possible.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:19 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:13 pm
He's fine not dunking the ball, the problem is that he brings it down in traffic where they can strip it from him.

I think the 7 turnovers broke down something like this - two offensive fouls, a couple of questionable passes to him in traffic where he had to put the ball on the court and got stripped, and three or four times where he just brought the ball down where it negates the advantage of being 7' tall.

Still, if you're grabbing 10 offensive rebounds and keeping so many possessions alive down the stretch, I can live with that as long as he learns from it.
Because in short combat being that tall is not positive and he doesn't bend the knees. That's stiffness right there and he needs to overcome it asap. If we had any athletic program, they should be drilling that into his head and his body.

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by The Bobster » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:21 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:14 pm
But the truth is Ayton was really good the second half and the biggest responsible for the win.

One thing I like to see positively is that even when he looks like he is doing terrible, he is still productive; You watch him and it leaves sometimes an ashy taste in your mouth, yet when you chueck he has like 12 points 7 rebounds, 1+ stock. This tends to be just taken for granted, all things count and it keeps you alive. We can afford to believe even if he is not Doncic or Young. He just needs to become the best Ayton possible.
Being able to contribute when your shot isn't going down is extremely valuable. He's an elite rebounder and a good defender and even when he's not shooting well you don't see a string of 7 for 20 games like you can see from Oubre and Booker because he's shooting from point blank a lot of the time.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:24 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:21 pm
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:14 pm
But the truth is Ayton was really good the second half and the biggest responsible for the win.

One thing I like to see positively is that even when he looks like he is doing terrible, he is still productive; You watch him and it leaves sometimes an ashy taste in your mouth, yet when you chueck he has like 12 points 7 rebounds, 1+ stock. This tends to be just taken for granted, all things count and it keeps you alive. We can afford to believe even if he is not Doncic or Young. He just needs to become the best Ayton possible.
Being able to contribute when your shot isn't going down is extremely valuable. He's an elite rebounder and a good defender and even when he's not shooting well you don't see a string of 7 for 20 games like you can see from Oubre and Booker because he's shooting from point blank a lot of the time.
Agreed. Ayton is not Kanter either, by a mile.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by specialsauce » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:43 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:55 am
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:06 am
Superbone wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:50 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:55 pm
People calling Ayton “not impactful” here are way off. Booker is our best player but Ayton is the most impactful. Defense, rebounds, an easy offensive guy (cleans up, not yet go-to but he’s real young). I’m really happy with his progress
He was as bad in the first half as he was great in the 2nd half.
He’s 30? Games into his sophomore season.
I'm just stating the facts, man. You think he'll ever learn to dunk the ball rather than laying it in most of the time and sometimes coming up empty?

I don’t think he has the lift honestly. He need forward momentum through PNR or dribble. It doesn’t look like being flat footed he can rise straight up and dunk.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by specialsauce » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:45 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:09 am
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:39 am
Baynes was great the first 10 games of the season, since then, not so much -

1st 10 - 10 GP, 24.3 Min, 59.0 FG%, 50.0 3P%, 73.3 FT%, 5.8 Reb, 3.1 Ast, 0.9 Blk, 16.2 Pts
Since - 25 GP, 21.4 Min, 44.6 FG%, 24.7 3P%, 71.0 FT%, 5.3 Reb, 1.3 Ast, 0.4 Blk, 9.0 Pts

Ungh.
Baynes hasn’t really been back since then IMO. He has been mostly injured and played hurt when he did play. I can’t even remember the last time he played before last night. Give him 5-10 games in a row to get into a groove. Cam was injured, came back missing everything for a few games. Now he has found his groove. I’m just saying...
You guys realize those first ten were a fluke right? Like this is Aron Baynes his whole career, the first 10 were his best 10 ever. You can give him 10,000 more games.

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by The Bobster » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm

Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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LazarusLong
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by LazarusLong » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:58 pm

RE: Ayton ... he seems to taking coaching well.
Last two games, he improved in the second half after bad first halves.
Against Toronto, he was setting up too high and hurting the offense. Second half, he set up near the low block and did well.
Against Chicago, they doubled him and he kept bringing the ball down and/or dribbling, resulting in six TOs.
Second half, he was active, moved around in the post, and kept the game and the ball near the rim.

It will be interesting to see how he does against Gobert tomorrow.
Once upon a time, in what seems an epoch ago, the Phoenix Suns were a respectable NBA franchise ...

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by The Bobster » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:58 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:45 pm
Nodack wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:09 am
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:39 am
Baynes was great the first 10 games of the season, since then, not so much -

1st 10 - 10 GP, 24.3 Min, 59.0 FG%, 50.0 3P%, 73.3 FT%, 5.8 Reb, 3.1 Ast, 0.9 Blk, 16.2 Pts
Since - 25 GP, 21.4 Min, 44.6 FG%, 24.7 3P%, 71.0 FT%, 5.3 Reb, 1.3 Ast, 0.4 Blk, 9.0 Pts

Ungh.
Baynes hasn’t really been back since then IMO. He has been mostly injured and played hurt when he did play. I can’t even remember the last time he played before last night. Give him 5-10 games in a row to get into a groove. Cam was injured, came back missing everything for a few games. Now he has found his groove. I’m just saying...
You guys realize those first ten were a fluke right? Like this is Aron Baynes his whole career, the first 10 were his best 10 ever. You can give him 10,000 more games.
His lack of rebounding has been the one thing that's surprised me. He just hasn't been very good on the boards.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Nodack
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Nodack » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:28 pm

LazarusLong wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:58 pm
RE: Ayton ... he seems to taking coaching well.
Last two games, he improved in the second half after bad first halves.
Against Toronto, he was setting up too high and hurting the offense. Second half, he set up near the low block and did well.
Against Chicago, they doubled him and he kept bringing the ball down and/or dribbling, resulting in six TOs.
Second half, he was active, moved around in the post, and kept the game and the ball near the rim.

It will be interesting to see how he does against Gobert tomorrow.
Simple. Only play him in the second half. :)

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:00 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:28 pm
Simple. Only play him in the second half. :)
But then he won't start playing well until OT! :-)

I just don't get all the Ayton hate. He's inconsistent and flawed. But he has so much talent and puts up such huge numbers. He's clearly improving and learning, and big men take time. I wish we'd picked ... what's his name, too, but Ayton is no bust. Why do people insist on heaping criticism on the guy when he has a mediocre quarter of basketball, in a win where he puts up 28 and 19? Do you know how few NBA players can put up a stat line like that? Regardless of exactly how many times they box out or whether they sometimes lay it up when they should dunk.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Superbone » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:04 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:00 pm
Nodack wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:28 pm
Simple. Only play him in the second half. :)
But then he won't start playing well until OT! :-)

I just don't get all the Ayton hate. He's inconsistent and flawed. But he has so much talent and puts up such huge numbers. He's clearly improving and learning, and big men take time. I wish we'd picked ... what's his name, too, but Ayton is no bust. Why do people insist on heaping criticism on the guy when he has a mediocre quarter of basketball, in a win where he puts up 28 and 19? Do you know how few NBA players can put up a stat line like that? Regardless of exactly how many times they box out or whether they sometimes lay it up when they should dunk.
What hate? Everybody here wants the best for him.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Nodack » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:50 pm

Ayton is doing fine. :D

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by JeremyG » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:57 am

It's almost as if people have forgotten what we've had to suffer with at center for the last several decades. We are probably just a matter of weeks away from being able to declare Ayton as the best center in Suns history. I'll take that any time from a #1 pick.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by SunsRIt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:42 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:00 pm
Nodack wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:28 pm
Simple. Only play him in the second half. :)
But then he won't start playing well until OT! :-)

I just don't get all the Ayton hate. He's inconsistent and flawed. But he has so much talent and puts up such huge numbers. He's clearly improving and learning, and big men take time. I wish we'd picked ... what's his name, too, but Ayton is no bust. Why do people insist on heaping criticism on the guy when he has a mediocre quarter of basketball, in a win where he puts up 28 and 19? Do you know how few NBA players can put up a stat line like that? Regardless of exactly how many times they box out or whether they sometimes lay it up when they should dunk.
Welcome aboard Marty. I’ve been saying this for a year and a half.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:36 am

SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:42 am
Welcome aboard Marty. I’ve been saying this for a year and a half.
:-)

I go back and forth on Ayton a bit, but I never swing so far negative where I totally hate the guy. When I'm down on him, it's more that I'm willing to consider him as an asset that I'd be willing to part with in a deal for a player such as KAT.

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SunsRIt
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by SunsRIt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:28 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:36 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:42 am
Welcome aboard Marty. I’ve been saying this for a year and a half.
:-)

I go back and forth on Ayton a bit, but I never swing so far negative where I totally hate the guy. When I'm down on him, it's more that I'm willing to consider him as an asset that I'd be willing to part with in a deal for a player such as KAT.
I wouldn’t do that. I really think Ayton is going to be close to a 30-15 guy in a year or two.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by virtual9mm » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:16 am

SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:28 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:36 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:42 am
Welcome aboard Marty. I’ve been saying this for a year and a half.
:-)

I go back and forth on Ayton a bit, but I never swing so far negative where I totally hate the guy. When I'm down on him, it's more that I'm willing to consider him as an asset that I'd be willing to part with in a deal for a player such as KAT.
I wouldn’t do that. I really think Ayton is going to be close to a 30-15 guy in a year or two.
Agree. He is not playing to his potential and look at what he is doing. KAT will never be a defensive anchor. Ayton already, miraculously is.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Superbone » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:08 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:36 am
SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:42 am
Welcome aboard Marty. I’ve been saying this for a year and a half.
:-)

I go back and forth on Ayton a bit, but I never swing so far negative where I totally hate the guy. When I'm down on him, it's more that I'm willing to consider him as an asset that I'd be willing to part with in a deal for a player such as KAT.
Again, who are you talking about here that hates him?
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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