Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by In2ition » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm
Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
He's doing great and keeps improving.
Part of the problem with Ayton is that everyone sees what he can be and the glaring flaws he has right now. Some can't see or imagine him improve those. While others expect it immediately and are impatient with the progress. While others like myself can see how little things we expect from anyone aren't very consistent and because of that his production is far less than what it could be, even right now.

It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Superbone » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:30 pm

In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm
Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
He's doing great and keeps improving.
Part of the problem with Ayton is that everyone sees what he can be and the glaring flaws he has right now. Some can't see or imagine him improve those. While others expect it immediately and are impatient with the progress. While others like myself can see how little things we expect from anyone aren't very consistent and because of that his production is far less than what it could be, even right now.

It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
That's what the expectations of a #1 overall pick will do for you.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by specialsauce » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:39 pm

Superbone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:30 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm
Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
He's doing great and keeps improving.
Part of the problem with Ayton is that everyone sees what he can be and the glaring flaws he has right now. Some can't see or imagine him improve those. While others expect it immediately and are impatient with the progress. While others like myself can see how little things we expect from anyone aren't very consistent and because of that his production is far less than what it could be, even right now.

It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
That's what the expectations of a #1 overall pick will do for you.
A second year 7 footer less than halfway through his second year....he has met every expectation of a #1 overall pick. They won’t all be LeBron. But it’s clear he’s going to be an impact player his whole career even if he plateaus at where he is and and he’s the most talented overall player to come out of that draft thus far- key word being overall. Ignore the flash and media hype of the guards who don’t play an ounce of defense. The NBA game is guard oriented right now, so they will naturally have a more immediate offensive impact because the ball is constantly in their hands. But Ayton has had as much an impact on this team’s net play as anybody else from his class, particularly on D.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Shabazz » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:23 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:39 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:30 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm
Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
He's doing great and keeps improving.
Part of the problem with Ayton is that everyone sees what he can be and the glaring flaws he has right now. Some can't see or imagine him improve those. While others expect it immediately and are impatient with the progress. While others like myself can see how little things we expect from anyone aren't very consistent and because of that his production is far less than what it could be, even right now.

It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
That's what the expectations of a #1 overall pick will do for you.
A second year 7 footer less than halfway through his second year....he has met every expectation of a #1 overall pick. They won’t all be LeBron. But it’s clear he’s going to be an impact player his whole career even if he plateaus at where he is and and he’s the most talented overall player to come out of that draft thus far- key word being overall. Ignore the flash and media hype of the guards who don’t play an ounce of defense. The NBA game is guard oriented right now, so they will naturally have a more immediate offensive impact because the ball is constantly in their hands. But Ayton has had as much an impact on this team’s net play as anybody else from his class, particularly on D.
I think Ayton has a solid argument as the #2 player from this class. I think the love JJJ gets over him is undeserving, bordering on ridiculous.

But, dude, it's Doncic and it's not close. Counting Defense and everything. Any opinion to the contrary would only come from a Suns fan.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Superbone » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:28 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:39 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:30 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm
Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
He's doing great and keeps improving.
Part of the problem with Ayton is that everyone sees what he can be and the glaring flaws he has right now. Some can't see or imagine him improve those. While others expect it immediately and are impatient with the progress. While others like myself can see how little things we expect from anyone aren't very consistent and because of that his production is far less than what it could be, even right now.

It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
That's what the expectations of a #1 overall pick will do for you.
A second year 7 footer less than halfway through his second year....he has met every expectation of a #1 overall pick. They won’t all be LeBron. But it’s clear he’s going to be an impact player his whole career even if he plateaus at where he is and and he’s the most talented overall player to come out of that draft thus far- key word being overall. Ignore the flash and media hype of the guards who don’t play an ounce of defense. The NBA game is guard oriented right now, so they will naturally have a more immediate offensive impact because the ball is constantly in their hands. But Ayton has had as much an impact on this team’s net play as anybody else from his class, particularly on D.
I was answering the question of why Ayton doesn't get the slack that JJJ, Robinson, and WCJ are afforded.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by ShelC » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:30 pm

The caveat with Ayton is: can he do it for all 34 or whatever minutes he's playing. Monty said it again after the Bulls win, Bridges said something to Ayton, and Ayton aknowledged (again) that he needs to focus in and bring the effort all the time. If we're still reading those quotes next year and the year after....

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Nodack » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:00 pm

Ayton was taken 1st when our most glaring weakness was point guard. It just so happens that one of the best point guards ever was also available to us and we passed to get Ayton. Some people had a problem with that and I can see why. At the same time the experts were saying Ayton was a generational center. The Suns have always been well known for having suck azz centers. I can see why management would have a difficult decision.

For better or worse they took Ayton. Doncic was already a veteran to professional basketball and was years ahead of everyone else in the draft as far as experience. Ayton was a giant gifted athlete with limited experience who grew up in Phoenix, went to college at UofA and ended up on the Suns. I think Either pick was a win win. Doncic might have helped the Suns more now. Ayton might help the Suns more later.

He was expected to make the sophomore jump this year and instead got suspended while Doncic looked like an All Star. Ayton finally comes back and sprains his ankle in the first game back and goes on injured reserve. Obviously people are pissed off and Ayton is sitting in the dog house at this point. Every time Ayton says something in the press we all make a big deal out of it because he isn’t backing it up on the court. He finally comes back from the ankle sprain and he is very tentative. Witness the low point of Ayton.

From that moment on he has been steadily improving even though he’s not really that many games into his season. He’s to the point where only fools go against him one on one. He IS becoming an intimidating force inside. He IS starting to get offensive rebounds. He IS starting to dunk it and keep the ball high. People ARE starting to talk less smack against him.

He is far from done. I think he is starting to make believers out of some.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by specialsauce » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:11 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:23 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:39 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:30 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:55 pm
Since being put back in the starting lineup on January 16 Ayton's averaging -

35.1 min, .545 FG%, .804 FT%, 12.9 reb, 2.2 ast, 1.7 blk 21.1 pts

Outside of the blocks those line up pretty closely with the career numbers of Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

Olajuwon - 35.7 min, .512 FG%, .712 FT%, 11.1 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.1 blk, 21.8 pts
Robinson - 34.7 min, .518 FG%, .736 FT%, 10.6 reb, 2.5 ast, 3.0 blk, 21.1 pts
He's doing great and keeps improving.
Part of the problem with Ayton is that everyone sees what he can be and the glaring flaws he has right now. Some can't see or imagine him improve those. While others expect it immediately and are impatient with the progress. While others like myself can see how little things we expect from anyone aren't very consistent and because of that his production is far less than what it could be, even right now.

It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
That's what the expectations of a #1 overall pick will do for you.
A second year 7 footer less than halfway through his second year....he has met every expectation of a #1 overall pick. They won’t all be LeBron. But it’s clear he’s going to be an impact player his whole career even if he plateaus at where he is and and he’s the most talented overall player to come out of that draft thus far- key word being overall. Ignore the flash and media hype of the guards who don’t play an ounce of defense. The NBA game is guard oriented right now, so they will naturally have a more immediate offensive impact because the ball is constantly in their hands. But Ayton has had as much an impact on this team’s net play as anybody else from his class, particularly on D.
I think Ayton has a solid argument as the #2 player from this class. I think the love JJJ gets over him is undeserving, bordering on ridiculous.

But, dude, it's Doncic and it's not close. Counting Defense and everything. Any opinion to the contrary would only come from a Suns fan.
One way player.

You may like watching Doncic play more, and the league may be slanted more in the favor of perimeter oriented players, but it’s a hard sell to me that Doncic or Young are better overall players at this point. They only impact one end of the court and are more liabilities on the other (Young is much worse). I think Ayton will end up closing the gap offensively, and on defense IMO he’s already shown he will be elite

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by SunsRIt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:56 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:00 pm
Ayton was taken 1st when our most glaring weakness was point guard. It just so happens that one of the best point guards ever was also available to us and we passed to get Ayton. Some people had a problem with that and I can see why. At the same time the experts were saying Ayton was a generational center. The Suns have always been well known for having suck azz centers. I can see why management would have a difficult decision.

For better or worse they took Ayton. Doncic was already a veteran to professional basketball and was years ahead of everyone else in the draft as far as experience. Ayton was a giant gifted athlete with limited experience who grew up in Phoenix, went to college at UofA and ended up on the Suns. I think Either pick was a win win. Doncic might have helped the Suns more now. Ayton might help the Suns more later.

He was expected to make the sophomore jump this year and instead got suspended while Doncic looked like an All Star. Ayton finally comes back and sprains his ankle in the first game back and goes on injured reserve. Obviously people are pissed off and Ayton is sitting in the dog house at this point. Every time Ayton says something in the press we all make a big deal out of it because he isn’t backing it up on the court. He finally comes back from the ankle sprain and he is very tentative. Witness the low point of Ayton.

From that moment on he has been steadily improving even though he’s not really that many games into his season. He’s to the point where only fools go against him one on one. He IS becoming an intimidating force inside. He IS starting to get offensive rebounds. He IS starting to dunk it and keep the ball high. People ARE starting to talk less smack against him.

He is far from done. I think he is starting to make believers out of some.
The Suns needed a just center as badly as the needed a point guard. They have had elite point guards over and over(Westphal, Kidd, John, Nash, and the list goes on). They have never had an elite center. Now they do.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Nodack » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:27 pm

Shaq was considered an elite player, just not by the time we got him. We did have a string of solid centers imo.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by SunsRIt » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:29 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:27 pm
Shaq was considered an elite player, just not by the time we got him. We did have a string of solid centers imo.
That’s funny. The Suns’ Shaq was not elite. And there is a big difference between solid and elite. That’s sounds like arguing just to argue.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by virtual9mm » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:34 pm

Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:00 pm
Ayton was taken 1st when our most glaring weakness was point guard. It just so happens that one of the best point guards ever was also available to us and we passed to get Ayton. Some people had a problem with that and I can see why. At the same time the experts were saying Ayton was a generational center. The Suns have always been well known for having suck azz centers. I can see why management would have a difficult decision.

For better or worse they took Ayton. Doncic was already a veteran to professional basketball and was years ahead of everyone else in the draft as far as experience. Ayton was a giant gifted athlete with limited experience who grew up in Phoenix, went to college at UofA and ended up on the Suns. I think Either pick was a win win. Doncic might have helped the Suns more now. Ayton might help the Suns more later.

He was expected to make the sophomore jump this year and instead got suspended while Doncic looked like an All Star. Ayton finally comes back and sprains his ankle in the first game back and goes on injured reserve. Obviously people are pissed off and Ayton is sitting in the dog house at this point. Every time Ayton says something in the press we all make a big deal out of it because he isn’t backing it up on the court. He finally comes back from the ankle sprain and he is very tentative. Witness the low point of Ayton.

From that moment on he has been steadily improving even though he’s not really that many games into his season. He’s to the point where only fools go against him one on one. He IS becoming an intimidating force inside. He IS starting to get offensive rebounds. He IS starting to dunk it and keep the ball high. People ARE starting to talk less smack against him.

He is far from done. I think he is starting to make believers out of some.
Great post. I've been a believer and he's starting to justify our belief. His ceiling is a Ewing-Garnett hybrid on defense, not sure what on offense but some kind of monster.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by In2ition » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:08 am

SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:56 pm
Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:00 pm
Ayton was taken 1st when our most glaring weakness was point guard. It just so happens that one of the best point guards ever was also available to us and we passed to get Ayton. Some people had a problem with that and I can see why. At the same time the experts were saying Ayton was a generational center. The Suns have always been well known for having suck azz centers. I can see why management would have a difficult decision.

For better or worse they took Ayton. Doncic was already a veteran to professional basketball and was years ahead of everyone else in the draft as far as experience. Ayton was a giant gifted athlete with limited experience who grew up in Phoenix, went to college at UofA and ended up on the Suns. I think Either pick was a win win. Doncic might have helped the Suns more now. Ayton might help the Suns more later.

He was expected to make the sophomore jump this year and instead got suspended while Doncic looked like an All Star. Ayton finally comes back and sprains his ankle in the first game back and goes on injured reserve. Obviously people are pissed off and Ayton is sitting in the dog house at this point. Every time Ayton says something in the press we all make a big deal out of it because he isn’t backing it up on the court. He finally comes back from the ankle sprain and he is very tentative. Witness the low point of Ayton.

From that moment on he has been steadily improving even though he’s not really that many games into his season. He’s to the point where only fools go against him one on one. He IS becoming an intimidating force inside. He IS starting to get offensive rebounds. He IS starting to dunk it and keep the ball high. People ARE starting to talk less smack against him.

He is far from done. I think he is starting to make believers out of some.
The Suns needed a just center as badly as the needed a point guard. They have had elite point guards over and over(Westphal, Kidd, John, Nash, and the list goes on). They have never had an elite center. Now they do.
I agree. There was a HUGE hole at center prior to that draft and got abused by the big teams in the West. We even saw it last year without a PF. It's only now starting to change. I'm not saying that the Suns didn't need a PG, because they clearly did, but I think they thought it was harder to get an elite big man, than to get a good PG. Idk what McDonough was thinking. Dude was all over the place with dumb decisions.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Nodack » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:39 am

SunsRIt wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:29 pm
Nodack wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:27 pm
Shaq was considered an elite player, just not by the time we got him. We did have a string of solid centers imo.
That’s funny. The Suns’ Shaq was not elite. And there is a big difference between solid and elite. That’s sounds like arguing just to argue.
Not arguing. Just talking.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by INFORMER » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:38 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:55 pm
People calling Ayton “not impactful” here are way off. Booker is our best player but Ayton is the most impactful.
With the way the Suns have played the last two games, clearly Kelly Oubre Jr. is the most impactful. :lol:
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by INFORMER » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:42 pm

In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
Mitchell Robinson?! He was a second round pick that didn't go to college. Why is it weird that he isn't as scrutinized as a player who went number one who played and dominated in college?
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:46 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:38 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:55 pm
People calling Ayton “not impactful” here are way off. Booker is our best player but Ayton is the most impactful.
With the way the Suns have played the last two games, clearly Kelly Oubre Jr. is the most impactful. :lol:
Monday morning quarterbacking here, convenient.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by INFORMER » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:46 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:11 pm
You may like watching Doncic play more, and the league may be slanted more in the favor of perimeter oriented players, but it’s a hard sell to me that Doncic or Young are better overall players at this point. They only impact one end of the court and are more liabilities on the other (Young is much worse). I think Ayton will end up closing the gap offensively, and on defense IMO he’s already shown he will be elite
I think we can leave Young out of this and just discuss Doncic. He is the best player on a winning team and is putting up Hall-of-Fame numbers in his second year in the league. It really isn't that complicated or debatable. It doesn't mean that Ayton is a bust or that he is worthless; but it really isn't close right now.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by In2ition » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:15 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:42 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
Mitchell Robinson?! He was a second round pick that didn't go to college. Why is it weird that he isn't as scrutinized as a player who went number one who played and dominated in college?
Elementary my dear Watson. His production his first year blew a lousy draft spot away. You aren't starting from that spot anymore when projecting growth, are you? He's been around the same as he was this year, but why is he not getting more time on the court? His ORtg is 142 and his DRtg is 107, with a WS per 48 of .226. That is pretty incredible, but he's only getting 2.4 more minutes per game? What area of his game has he made a leap in? What skill has he brought to the table that he didn't have before?
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Re: Game Day: Suns (22-34) @ Bulls (19-37), Sat 2/22/20

Post by Shabazz » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:32 pm

In2ition wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:15 am
INFORMER wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:42 pm
In2ition wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:10 pm
It's weird though, that guys like JJJ, Mitchell Robinson, and WCJ are given a ton of leeway and benefit of the doubt on projected growth even though they aren't even close to as productive or have improved as much as Ayton has this year from last year.
Mitchell Robinson?! He was a second round pick that didn't go to college. Why is it weird that he isn't as scrutinized as a player who went number one who played and dominated in college?
Elementary my dear Watson. His production his first year blew a lousy draft spot away. You aren't starting from that spot anymore when projecting growth, are you? He's been around the same as he was this year, but why is he not getting more time on the court? His ORtg is 142 and his DRtg is 107, with a WS per 48 of .226. That is pretty incredible, but he's only getting 2.4 more minutes per game? What area of his game has he made a leap in? What skill has he brought to the table that he didn't have before?
Because the Knicks stupidly signed 14 power forwards this past offseason to block his progress.

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