Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Mori Chu »

This had me laughing out loud:


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O_Gardino
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by O_Gardino »

Nice
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Superbone »

The music really makes it.
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Shabazz
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Shabazz »

The Nash guy is a little one note.

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Nodack
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Nodack »

Yeah, he kept playing with his hair to look like Steve.

The real Steve had long hair and it got in his eyes. He would lick his fingers and run his spit thru his hair to moisten it, which in turn helps keep it behind his ears and out of his face. Is that kind of gross? Maybe... It works though. Am I speaking from experience? Of course I would never do anything like that. Who do you think I am?

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Indy »

The wide open one-legged fade away jumper from dirk was perfect.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by In2ition »

I liked his backwards trot.
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Nodack
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Nodack »

My wife was almost asleep in bed and then I started laughing at the video.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by In2ition »

Listening to Burns and Gambo. He's saying that the Suns will target Aaron Gordon and Laurie Markennen this summer. He thinks that Laurie is the better player and will command $20 mil in FA in a yr from now. The Bulls are going through a mgmt change and supposedly Lauri is unhappy. He also thinks they would have to give up a good player and a high draft pick if they trade for him. What do you think? Do you give up Kelly and the (10th?) pick for Laurie only to have to pay him $20 mil? Seems steep to me.
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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by specialsauce »

Is Markkanen any different from Saric? Asking legitimately.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by ShelC »

He's taller, smoother, more fluid athlete. Much more of an offensive, off-the-dribble threat. Durability is the biggest concern. 20mil a year would be a lot for him at this point.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Lauri is a better player than Dario across the board. Lauri will be 23 next month and Dario actually just turned 26 today (Happy Cake Day Dario!). I think Lauri pursuing $20M/year is on the high side at this point. I suppose it's possible in his ideal situation where he played an entire season and showed significant improvement, a la Kelly Oubre circa Spring 2019. I think $70M/4YR is more in the ballpark of what he should command on the market assuming solid health and development.

I've warmed to the idea of Aaron Gordon, but I don't like the fit with him and Oubre on the court at the same time. It's gotta be one or the other. I think Oubre has likely peaked, but I also believe he'll have a number of years at this level still. On the other hand, I think Gordon can still become a better shooter. The worry is what his skill set will become when his athleticism declines if he doesn't become a better shooter.

My concern with all of this is that I'm not convinced that Ayton or Booker can be the best guy on a title team right now. If they add two more second/third banana guys in Lauri and Gordon then expectations will logically skyrocket, but they could still be without the guy who puts them in real contention. Would they be fun and have wide open window of 50ish wins every season? Most likely. That also feels like the ceiling, though.

As an aside, chasing ex-UA players feels so damn lazy and desperate to me.
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by O_Gardino »

Lauri is still only good in theory. I got excited after his solid rookie season, but any team that signs him is gambling that he will do things for them that he did not do for Chicago.

He is injured every year, and he just came off his worst season as a pro. All of his shooting %s were career lows, his rebounding was a career low, and you can't point to any aspect of the game he has gotten better at over the last 3 seasons. He still doesn't pass much, and he still doesn't really make impact plays on defense.

Lauri certainly looks like the better player, but Dario was better at shooting, rebounding, and passing last year.
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I think playing in Chicago, one of the few franchises more of a shit show than the Suns, has hindered his development to some degree. Also playing with guards who are allergic to passing doesn't help.
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Mori Chu »

I like the idea of Markkanen a lot, but then whenever I go look him up, I'm disappointed by the numbers. I think of him as a great 3-point shooting big man, but he shot 34% on them this year and only 35.6% in his career. His overall FG% is also quite low, at 42.5%. And I thought he was one of their leading scorers, but he's only averaging 14.7 ppg. Granted that is also a reflection on his teammates, his PG, his team, and so on. But I thought he would put up better numbers even in a suboptimal situation.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... kla01.html

As for Aaron Gordon, I've flip-flopped on him a few times, but ultimately I keep coming back to the poor shooting. He shoots only 30% on 3s, and I don't think his ceiling is much higher than that. Even his FT% is low at 67.5%. I think his shooting would be a real liability for him if he were here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... oaa01.html

I especially think it would be unwise to throw in Oubre into a deal for either one of these guys. Oubre has been great this year, and he really embraces his role on the team and likes playing here. He is a great chemistry guy and the teammates and fans like him a lot. He's paid a decently high amount but probably a fair amount given his production and value. He's averaged 18.7 ppg this season and shot 35.2% from 3.

Overall all of Oubre / Markkanen / Gordon are not that far apart in terms of their scoring (PPG), their shooting percentages, their PER, and so on. They're not the same kind of player, but I don't really see the argument that either of Markkanen or Gordon is significantly better than Oubre. So why take such a risk and give up Oubre and presumably a pick for either of them? I think that'd be a step backwards. I'm fond of both of the former Wildcats, but I think you only grab them if you can do so without giving up one of our top 3 players.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Superbone »

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:05 pm
Is Markkanen any different from Saric? Asking legitimately.
The pandemic has softened you up as you didn’t jump on the opportunity to jettison Oubre. ;)
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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by ShelC »

My concern with all of this is that I'm not convinced that Ayton or Booker can be the best guy on a title team right now. If they add two more second/third banana guys in Lauri and Gordon then expectations will logically skyrocket, but they could still be without the guy who puts them in real contention. Would they be fun and have wide open window of 50ish wins every season? Most likely. That also feels like the ceiling, though.
Agree with this. And while I do think Markkanen was miserable in Chicago which contributed to his down year, he hasn't exactly proven himself over 70+ games either. But it could also be a Porzingis situation where he needs a change of scenery.

I'm really not a fan of Gordon at all. I don't see much of a basketball player there, just an athletic tweener who's worked to improve his offense but doesn't seem to be consistent enough to be really impactful. Feels like everytime I look at his stat line it's 14 and 5 on like 35% shooting. People scoff at the thought of Oubre making 20mil but Gordon is making that much and to me, isn't nearly as impactful.

Also think this idea that Oubre is paid too much just isn't accurate. He's getting 15-16mil, which to me, is on the cheaper side considering the market and his impact. But his contract is essentially market value. The Nets and Joe Harris are supposedly discussing an extension in the 3 year 45 mil range, so that's about the going rate for SFs. And when you factor in things like chemistry, culture, big play abilit, it feels like we got him on the cheap. Hell, his swagger alone is worth 2-3mil. But I do get that he's a SF and that's typically the most replaceable position/role in the league. And the fact that we have Bridges and Cam on the roster would really soften the blow in losing him. So if we move him, it better be for the right guy. Markkanen might be that guy and if we trade Oubre I'd rather see a 22 yr old, 7-1 perimeter PF who fills a big need for us rather than a 6-8 tweener who can't shoot. Gordon just feels like a bigger, worse version of Oubre. On the same team, they'd feel redundant.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Split T »

Aaron Gordon had an awful start to the season, but he was playing really well before the Coronavirus hit. He was dropping triple doubles and looking draymond esque at times.

Lauri was not good this year, but he’s in a bad situation. He was 19/9 the year before and shot 43/36/87 at 21 years old. No he’s not Dirk, but a lot of talent there.

Still, I don’t think I want to move Oubre for either of them. I understand why on paper, as both are more suited to the 4 and provide similar value and youth, but it feels very much like a lateral move. I think Oubre is a valuable chemistry and culture piece...I would only move him in a clear step forward.

Both had subpar season, it’s possible they could be acquired on the cheap. I’d offer up our 1st(probably 10th) and whoever else they want not named Booker, Bridges, Ayton, or Oubre.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by wpmiller42 »

Split T wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:48 am
Aaron Gordon had an awful start to the season, but he was playing really well before the Coronavirus hit. He was dropping triple doubles and looking draymond esque at times.

Lauri was not good this year, but he’s in a bad situation. He was 19/9 the year before and shot 43/36/87 at 21 years old. No he’s not Dirk, but a lot of talent there.

Still, I don’t think I want to move Oubre for either of them. I understand why on paper, as both are more suited to the 4 and provide similar value and youth, but it feels very much like a lateral move. I think Oubre is a valuable chemistry and culture piece...I would only move him in a clear step forward.

Both had subpar season, it’s possible they could be acquired on the cheap. I’d offer up our 1st(probably 10th) and whoever else they want not named Booker, Bridges, Ayton, or Oubre.
I think this is where I'm at too. I might also include Cam Johnson in that list you had at the end. Great shooter, better than average defender, who I think can still get a little better.

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by specialsauce »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:05 am
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:05 pm
Is Markkanen any different from Saric? Asking legitimately.
The pandemic has softened you up as you didn’t jump on the opportunity to jettison Oubre. ;)
Lol. My mistake. My emotions are elsewhere right now. :lol:

I’d trade him for cash considerations to Chicago!

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