Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Superbone » Tue May 12, 2020 11:53 am

In2ition wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:15 am
Passed on a lot of guys. Fox, Isaac, Markkanen, Zach Collins, Luke Kennard, Mitchell, Bam, John Collins, Allen, Anunoby, Kuzma, Derrick White all in the 1st round. Then in the 2nd round we picked Davon Reed and passed on Jordan Bell, Thomas Bryant, Dillon Brooks & Monte Morris.
Stop it!!!
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Superbone » Tue May 12, 2020 11:58 am

The thing that kills me is Sarver's meddling. Story is since Jones became GM is that he's hands off now. It's just hard to believe after all his past history. Has he finally learned after so many years of bad teams to stay out of it? Until I stop hearing these stories for an extended time, I have to believe he's still at it but I hope he's finally learned his lesson.

It's very hard to get over what has happened to our beloved team since Colangelo gave up the reins to Sarver. It's going to take some extended winning to wash the taste out. Williams was a great start and perfect coach for this team.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by ShelC » Tue May 12, 2020 12:12 pm

Even if he's hands off, I get the feeling he'll start his BS again if/when we really start to turn things around. He won't be able to help himself.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Mori Chu » Tue May 12, 2020 12:15 pm

More likely, James Jones always "agrees" with Sarver so it doesn't get classified as meddling. Sarver hand-picked a rookie GM who he already knew he could get along with and who would defer to him whenever he had an opinion on something.

That's not to say that Sarver is operating as our GM and that he's making all the decisions. I bet Jones is the one who loved Cam Johnson; he's so similar to Jones himself that it makes too much sense. But my guess is that Sarver didn't have a strong opinion about who we should take at 11, so he let Jones decide. If Sarver has a strong opinion on something, though, such as Ayton over Luka, he probably does chime in and expect the FO to obey.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Indy » Wed May 13, 2020 6:04 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:15 pm
More likely, James Jones always "agrees" with Sarver so it doesn't get classified as meddling. Sarver hand-picked a rookie GM who he already knew he could get along with and who would defer to him whenever he had an opinion on something.

That's not to say that Sarver is operating as our GM and that he's making all the decisions. I bet Jones is the one who loved Cam Johnson; he's so similar to Jones himself that it makes too much sense. But my guess is that Sarver didn't have a strong opinion about who we should take at 11, so he let Jones decide. If Sarver has a strong opinion on something, though, such as Ayton over Luka, he probably does chime in and expect the FO to obey.
which GM has not been a rookie under Sarver? Just BC? Actually, I think every GM the Suns have ever had was a first time GM when they started in the position.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Cap » Wed May 13, 2020 6:31 am

Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:04 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:15 pm
More likely, James Jones always "agrees" with Sarver so it doesn't get classified as meddling. Sarver hand-picked a rookie GM who he already knew he could get along with and who would defer to him whenever he had an opinion on something.

That's not to say that Sarver is operating as our GM and that he's making all the decisions. I bet Jones is the one who loved Cam Johnson; he's so similar to Jones himself that it makes too much sense. But my guess is that Sarver didn't have a strong opinion about who we should take at 11, so he let Jones decide. If Sarver has a strong opinion on something, though, such as Ayton over Luka, he probably does chime in and expect the FO to obey.
which GM has not been a rookie under Sarver? Just BC? Actually, I think every GM the Suns have ever had was a first time GM when they started in the position.
Mike D’Antoni spent one season as Director of Player Personnel in Denver.

The Nuggets went 11-71 that season.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by ShelC » Wed May 13, 2020 8:08 am

Yea but Griffin was running the FO that season and pushed to sign Banks.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by ShelC » Wed May 13, 2020 9:04 am

Also, I keep coming back to this off the Jones/Monty conference call about a month ago when they talked about using Book at PG a bit more:

Adding Rubio was meant to take the burden off Booker to do everything as he’s been forced to do in years past, but in small doses like the 10-12 minutes Williams is talking about, it’s probably a better option than the Jevon Carter–Elie Okobo–Ty Jerome trio Phoenix has been rolling out at the backup 1-spot.

We always talk about needing a reliable backup, looking for them in FA or the draft, etc and now we have two 2nd year guys in Okobo and Carter who I thought showed some real nice flashes this season. They do different things but proved effective at times in certain matchups. The whole point of taking 2nd rounders and UDFAs is to develop them. Would like to see them continue in Phx and grow into their roles, even if it means off the ball next to Book.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Indy » Wed May 13, 2020 10:16 am

Cap wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:31 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:04 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:15 pm
More likely, James Jones always "agrees" with Sarver so it doesn't get classified as meddling. Sarver hand-picked a rookie GM who he already knew he could get along with and who would defer to him whenever he had an opinion on something.

That's not to say that Sarver is operating as our GM and that he's making all the decisions. I bet Jones is the one who loved Cam Johnson; he's so similar to Jones himself that it makes too much sense. But my guess is that Sarver didn't have a strong opinion about who we should take at 11, so he let Jones decide. If Sarver has a strong opinion on something, though, such as Ayton over Luka, he probably does chime in and expect the FO to obey.
which GM has not been a rookie under Sarver? Just BC? Actually, I think every GM the Suns have ever had was a first time GM when they started in the position.
Mike D’Antoni spent one season as Director of Player Personnel in Denver.

The Nuggets went 11-71 that season.
good catch. I didn't realize he was head coach and GM in both Denver and Phoenix.

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Cap » Wed May 13, 2020 10:55 am

Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:16 am
Cap wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:31 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:04 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:15 pm
More likely, James Jones always "agrees" with Sarver so it doesn't get classified as meddling. Sarver hand-picked a rookie GM who he already knew he could get along with and who would defer to him whenever he had an opinion on something.

That's not to say that Sarver is operating as our GM and that he's making all the decisions. I bet Jones is the one who loved Cam Johnson; he's so similar to Jones himself that it makes too much sense. But my guess is that Sarver didn't have a strong opinion about who we should take at 11, so he let Jones decide. If Sarver has a strong opinion on something, though, such as Ayton over Luka, he probably does chime in and expect the FO to obey.
which GM has not been a rookie under Sarver? Just BC? Actually, I think every GM the Suns have ever had was a first time GM when they started in the position.
Mike D’Antoni spent one season as Director of Player Personnel in Denver.

The Nuggets went 11-71 that season.
good catch. I didn't realize he was head coach and GM in both Denver and Phoenix.
He didn’t wear both hats at the same time in Denver. He was DOPP in 1997-98 and coach in (98-)99.

The most significant move of his DOPP tenure was trading Antonio McDyess for Wesley Person and two #1s.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by In2ition » Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:04 am
Also, I keep coming back to this off the Jones/Monty conference call about a month ago when they talked about using Book at PG a bit more:

Adding Rubio was meant to take the burden off Booker to do everything as he’s been forced to do in years past, but in small doses like the 10-12 minutes Williams is talking about, it’s probably a better option than the Jevon Carter–Elie Okobo–Ty Jerome trio Phoenix has been rolling out at the backup 1-spot.

We always talk about needing a reliable backup, looking for them in FA or the draft, etc and now we have two 2nd year guys in Okobo and Carter who I thought showed some real nice flashes this season. They do different things but proved effective at times in certain matchups. The whole point of taking 2nd rounders and UDFAs is to develop them. Would like to see them continue in Phx and grow into their roles, even if it means off the ball next to Book.
Are you convinced that these guys would be good enough to be a long term backup, Okobo in particular? I'll tell you straight out, I don't think Okobo is going to be in the league much longer and Carter doesn't have the ball handling or any type of vision to be an NBA PG. Jerome has promise, but hasn't shown the required athleticism, imo...yet.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by O_Gardino » Wed May 13, 2020 11:31 am

Cap wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:55 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 10:16 am
Cap wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:31 am
Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 6:04 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:15 pm
More likely, James Jones always "agrees" with Sarver so it doesn't get classified as meddling. Sarver hand-picked a rookie GM who he already knew he could get along with and who would defer to him whenever he had an opinion on something.

That's not to say that Sarver is operating as our GM and that he's making all the decisions. I bet Jones is the one who loved Cam Johnson; he's so similar to Jones himself that it makes too much sense. But my guess is that Sarver didn't have a strong opinion about who we should take at 11, so he let Jones decide. If Sarver has a strong opinion on something, though, such as Ayton over Luka, he probably does chime in and expect the FO to obey.
which GM has not been a rookie under Sarver? Just BC? Actually, I think every GM the Suns have ever had was a first time GM when they started in the position.
Mike D’Antoni spent one season as Director of Player Personnel in Denver.

The Nuggets went 11-71 that season.
good catch. I didn't realize he was head coach and GM in both Denver and Phoenix.
He didn’t wear both hats at the same time in Denver. He was DOPP in 1997-98 and coach in (98-)99.

The most significant move of his DOPP tenure was trading Antonio McDyess for Wesley Person and two #1s.
I'm pretty sure he joined the Nuggets halfway through the season. Maybe in early '98, after Issel was fired over some scandal. Racist comments, maybe?
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by ShelC » Wed May 13, 2020 12:28 pm

In2ition wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am
ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:04 am
Also, I keep coming back to this off the Jones/Monty conference call about a month ago when they talked about using Book at PG a bit more:

Adding Rubio was meant to take the burden off Booker to do everything as he’s been forced to do in years past, but in small doses like the 10-12 minutes Williams is talking about, it’s probably a better option than the Jevon Carter–Elie Okobo–Ty Jerome trio Phoenix has been rolling out at the backup 1-spot.

We always talk about needing a reliable backup, looking for them in FA or the draft, etc and now we have two 2nd year guys in Okobo and Carter who I thought showed some real nice flashes this season. They do different things but proved effective at times in certain matchups. The whole point of taking 2nd rounders and UDFAs is to develop them. Would like to see them continue in Phx and grow into their roles, even if it means off the ball next to Book.
Are you convinced that these guys would be good enough to be a long term backup, Okobo in particular? I'll tell you straight out, I don't think Okobo is going to be in the league much longer and Carter doesn't have the ball handling or any type of vision to be an NBA PG. Jerome has promise, but hasn't shown the required athleticism, imo...yet.
I can't say for sure Okobo and Carter aren't good enough, but that's kinda my point. That's what development is all about. But I like Okobo's athleticism and quickness and potential to be a scoring guard and Carter's 3 and D potential. Carter's changed games for us with his defense and energy. He's hit some big shots. That's what backups do. Let them stick around and play their roles. We know they're not starting PGs but if Book is playing PG then we don't need them to be.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Superbone » Wed May 13, 2020 12:29 pm

Majerle throws Ainge under the bus in an AZCentral article today about the end of the '93 Finals Game 6:
“Our whole discussion in the timeout was anything but a 3,” Majerle said. “We didn’t talk about double-teaming Michael. All we talked about was, ‘Make them shoot a 2. If they tie it up, we go into overtime and win this thing.’ The only thing we didn’t want was a 3.”

Jordan sprinted up the floor and threw the ball to Scottie Pippen, who found a wide-open Horace Grant underneath the basket. Ainge left John Paxson open on the perimeter to contest a potential layup.

Paxson caught a sharp pass and made the game-winning 3-pointer.

“That’s the one thing we didn’t want,” Majerle said.

“As soon as he caught the ball, I knew it was over. We had a defensive breakdown. We gave one of the best shooters in the league a wide-open 3.”
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by In2ition » Wed May 13, 2020 12:52 pm

Superbone wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:29 pm
Majerle throws Ainge under the bus in an AZCentral article today about the end of the '93 Finals Game 6:
“Our whole discussion in the timeout was anything but a 3,” Majerle said. “We didn’t talk about double-teaming Michael. All we talked about was, ‘Make them shoot a 2. If they tie it up, we go into overtime and win this thing.’ The only thing we didn’t want was a 3.”

Jordan sprinted up the floor and threw the ball to Scottie Pippen, who found a wide-open Horace Grant underneath the basket. Ainge left John Paxson open on the perimeter to contest a potential layup.

Paxson caught a sharp pass and made the game-winning 3-pointer.

“That’s the one thing we didn’t want,” Majerle said.

“As soon as he caught the ball, I knew it was over. We had a defensive breakdown. We gave one of the best shooters in the league a wide-open 3.”
Majerle is right. That's what was discussed, but in Ainge's defense, the closeout on Pippen by Barkley in that initial pass in from Jordan to the top of the key was atrocious. Ainge panicked, because West had to move to cover Pippen and left Grant alone.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Shabazz » Wed May 13, 2020 1:13 pm

ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:28 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am
ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:04 am
Also, I keep coming back to this off the Jones/Monty conference call about a month ago when they talked about using Book at PG a bit more:

Adding Rubio was meant to take the burden off Booker to do everything as he’s been forced to do in years past, but in small doses like the 10-12 minutes Williams is talking about, it’s probably a better option than the Jevon Carter–Elie Okobo–Ty Jerome trio Phoenix has been rolling out at the backup 1-spot.

We always talk about needing a reliable backup, looking for them in FA or the draft, etc and now we have two 2nd year guys in Okobo and Carter who I thought showed some real nice flashes this season. They do different things but proved effective at times in certain matchups. The whole point of taking 2nd rounders and UDFAs is to develop them. Would like to see them continue in Phx and grow into their roles, even if it means off the ball next to Book.
Are you convinced that these guys would be good enough to be a long term backup, Okobo in particular? I'll tell you straight out, I don't think Okobo is going to be in the league much longer and Carter doesn't have the ball handling or any type of vision to be an NBA PG. Jerome has promise, but hasn't shown the required athleticism, imo...yet.
I can't say for sure Okobo and Carter aren't good enough, but that's kinda my point. That's what development is all about. But I like Okobo's athleticism and quickness and potential to be a scoring guard and Carter's 3 and D potential. Carter's changed games for us with his defense and energy. He's hit some big shots. That's what backups do. Let them stick around and play their roles. We know they're not starting PGs but if Book is playing PG then we don't need them to be.
The best backup PG play I saw from the whole group this season was Ty Jerome in preseason. He looked like he had command of the game and his shot looked pure. His D was also underrated. I think his injury really set his development back as he had to play catch up all season.

Of the 3 players, I think I would invest in him.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by Indy » Wed May 13, 2020 1:14 pm

the steal attempt by Barkley instead of just staying in front of his man started the entire failure cascade on that possession.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by In2ition » Wed May 13, 2020 1:33 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:13 pm
ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:28 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am
ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:04 am
Also, I keep coming back to this off the Jones/Monty conference call about a month ago when they talked about using Book at PG a bit more:

Adding Rubio was meant to take the burden off Booker to do everything as he’s been forced to do in years past, but in small doses like the 10-12 minutes Williams is talking about, it’s probably a better option than the Jevon Carter–Elie Okobo–Ty Jerome trio Phoenix has been rolling out at the backup 1-spot.

We always talk about needing a reliable backup, looking for them in FA or the draft, etc and now we have two 2nd year guys in Okobo and Carter who I thought showed some real nice flashes this season. They do different things but proved effective at times in certain matchups. The whole point of taking 2nd rounders and UDFAs is to develop them. Would like to see them continue in Phx and grow into their roles, even if it means off the ball next to Book.
Are you convinced that these guys would be good enough to be a long term backup, Okobo in particular? I'll tell you straight out, I don't think Okobo is going to be in the league much longer and Carter doesn't have the ball handling or any type of vision to be an NBA PG. Jerome has promise, but hasn't shown the required athleticism, imo...yet.
I can't say for sure Okobo and Carter aren't good enough, but that's kinda my point. That's what development is all about. But I like Okobo's athleticism and quickness and potential to be a scoring guard and Carter's 3 and D potential. Carter's changed games for us with his defense and energy. He's hit some big shots. That's what backups do. Let them stick around and play their roles. We know they're not starting PGs but if Book is playing PG then we don't need them to be.
The best backup PG play I saw from the whole group this season was Ty Jerome in preseason. He looked like he had command of the game and his shot looked pure. His D was also underrated. I think his injury really set his development back as he had to play catch up all season.

Of the 3 players, I think I would invest in him.
The positive outlook of mine is holding onto this too.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by In2ition » Wed May 13, 2020 1:34 pm

Indy wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:14 pm
the steal attempt by Barkley instead of just staying in front of his man started the entire failure cascade on that possession.
Idk how he thought he was going to get a steal at that point and from Pippen's left side? It was odd to just let the lane be wide open.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Re: Suns News: Week 20 3/9-3/15

Post by O_Gardino » Wed May 13, 2020 3:49 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:13 pm
ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:28 pm
In2ition wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:08 am
ShelC wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:04 am
Also, I keep coming back to this off the Jones/Monty conference call about a month ago when they talked about using Book at PG a bit more:

Adding Rubio was meant to take the burden off Booker to do everything as he’s been forced to do in years past, but in small doses like the 10-12 minutes Williams is talking about, it’s probably a better option than the Jevon Carter–Elie Okobo–Ty Jerome trio Phoenix has been rolling out at the backup 1-spot.

We always talk about needing a reliable backup, looking for them in FA or the draft, etc and now we have two 2nd year guys in Okobo and Carter who I thought showed some real nice flashes this season. They do different things but proved effective at times in certain matchups. The whole point of taking 2nd rounders and UDFAs is to develop them. Would like to see them continue in Phx and grow into their roles, even if it means off the ball next to Book.
Are you convinced that these guys would be good enough to be a long term backup, Okobo in particular? I'll tell you straight out, I don't think Okobo is going to be in the league much longer and Carter doesn't have the ball handling or any type of vision to be an NBA PG. Jerome has promise, but hasn't shown the required athleticism, imo...yet.
I can't say for sure Okobo and Carter aren't good enough, but that's kinda my point. That's what development is all about. But I like Okobo's athleticism and quickness and potential to be a scoring guard and Carter's 3 and D potential. Carter's changed games for us with his defense and energy. He's hit some big shots. That's what backups do. Let them stick around and play their roles. We know they're not starting PGs but if Book is playing PG then we don't need them to be.
The best backup PG play I saw from the whole group this season was Ty Jerome in preseason. He looked like he had command of the game and his shot looked pure. His D was also underrated. I think his injury really set his development back as he had to play catch up all season.

Of the 3 players, I think I would invest in him.
I keep forgetting he was injured early on. Hopefully he is more physically ready this season.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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