NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

[Split T]

Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:

- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
- If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

[In2ition]

Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:

- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
- If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

Damn, you noticed that part I left out, haha. Yeah, his shot needs major work, and hopefully he's working on it now. It would sure be nice to have someone that can slow down a Mitchell or Murray.

[Split T]

Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:

- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
- If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

Damn, you noticed that part I left out, haha. Yeah, his shot needs major work, and hopefully he's working on it now. It would sure be nice to have someone that can slow down a Mitchell or Murray.

What about Vassell? Do you think Okoro is a better defensive prospect? Okoro seems more likely to defend against big wings, but I think Vassell will be someone we could throw at Murray or Mitchell.

[In2ition]

Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:

- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
- If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

Damn, you noticed that part I left out, haha. Yeah, his shot needs major work, and hopefully he's working on it now. It would sure be nice to have someone that can slow down a Mitchell or Murray.

What about Vassell? Do you think Okoro is a better defensive prospect? Okoro seems more likely to defend against big wings, but I think Vassell will be someone we could throw at Murray or Mitchell.

I see him as a lot more athletic and strong with really nice defensive insticts already. I'm not sure Vassell can compete with the quickness and athleticism like Okoro can, even though I love what Vassell brings.

[sunshoopjunky]

Ayton needs to work on his hands, If he had full control on the ball more it would make him seem more aggressive. His hands are not near good enough for him to dunk through traffic yet. Amare had that at the begining.

[3rdside]

Just to piece together what I've said across a few different threads regarding this Ball trade:

- If Haliburton, Hayes or Toppin are available I wouldn't do it
- If those three are all gone but Vassell is available then I lean Vassell (Ball's got $11m owed this coming season only, #10 costs $3.7m).
- If those four are all gone but Okoro is available I'd go for Ball
- If they're all gone then I'd definitely go for Ball

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

That's my reasoning .. he looks like a player and I wouldn't complain if we selected him, but in this day and age I want some kind of certainty on the 3pt shot. Okoro's sub .300 on 3's with only a .672 FT% where the other guys listed can all shoot, at least on paper.

[3rdside]

And it's why I'm fine with LaMelo and his .250 3pt% going top 5 .. I'd rather Hayes or Haliburton I think, at least Hayes anyway, and there's a better chance of that happening if he does.

[Indy]

One of these things is not like the others.....

Diaw - 1064 games, .493 FG%, 4.4 reb, 8.6 pts
Len - 467 games, .495 FG%, 6.3 reb, pts
Bender - 187 games, .399 FG%, 3.9 reb, 5.4 pts
Ayton - 109 games, .570 FG%, 10.7 reb, 17.0 pts

Agreed. He’s better than all of them. But I don’t think Indy was saying otherwise.

Diaw - FTr .191, FTA 1.2
Len - FTr .396(!), FTA 2.4
Bender - FTr .139, FTA 0.7
Ayton - FTr .193, FTA 2.4

some examples he should strive for:

Anthony Davis FTr .412, FTA 7.1
Embiid - FTr .515, FTA 8.6
Amar’e - FTr .495, FTA 6.4 (weighed down by end of career)

Lot of people like to compare him The Admiral.
FTr .577, FTA 8.3

I think DA can improve his FT numbers but not sure he’s ever going to be aggressive enough to reach those numbers consistently. Hopefully he does though because it’d take his offensive game to the next level.

Exactly, nobody is saying they would rather have Len or Bender than Ayton. That is just silly. I was pointing out exactly what BTG was saying. He sucks at getting to the line, and based on the games I watch, that is directly tied to his lack of aggression on the court.

[ShelC]

It's just a mentality and instinct. Some guys look to create/initiate contact, go thru defenders, have a nose for the rim. Ayton more often than not fades away or tries to avoid contact and plays smaller near the rim. We can talk about teaching him to be aggressive but it's not often that a guy really changes.

But again, Tim Duncan didn't dunk on everyone and scream and beat his chest after a dunk or a blocked shot. But he was efficient and knew to pick his spots. Paul Gasol was the same way. If he emulate those guys, we're good. But they were also locked in throughout the game and had extremely high bball IQs. I don't know if Ayton can get there. The way he played against the Heat, Thunder and Sixers on Orlando was embarrassing IMO.

[Indy]

It's just a mentality and instinct. Some guys look to create/initiate contact, go thru defenders, have a nose for the rim. Ayton more often than not fades away or tries to avoid contact and plays smaller near the rim. We can talk about teaching him to be aggressive but it's not often that a guy really changes.

But again, Tim Duncan didn't dunk on everyone and scream and beat his chest after a dunk or a blocked shot. But he was efficient and knew to pick his spots. Paul Gasol was the same way. If he emulate those guys, we're good. But they were also locked in throughout the game and had extremely high bball IQs. I don't know if Ayton can get there. The way he played against the Heat, Thunder and Sixers on Orlando was embarrassing IMO.

Oh, I am not talking about energy or show boating or gloating (or even doing push ups!). I mean seeking contact. Wanting to make sure you get that contact so you can get a trip to the line even if you miss. Ayton actively avoids contact, even minimal. It is like he is a bull in a china shop that REALLY loves fine china and can't imagine breaking any of it.

[djy2j]

Been reading all the FVV tweets etc the past 2 days and I have to say...I don’t get it. I don’t get how we’d realistically get to 25 mil Cap space to pay him and still be better for it. I also don’t know why you’d pay him that much.

He’s a nice player for sure. It just seems like the timing here is kinda off.

Why would he want to come off the bench? If he starts then why would Rubio want to come off the bench? If they both start then why would we want Devin guarding bigger wings?

I could keep going but you get my point. I just have trouble understanding how the moves that would need to be made to accommodate FVV would make this team better.

[INFORMER]

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

Neither could Jaylen Brown or Kawhi Leonard.

[specialsauce]

Been reading all the FVV tweets etc the past 2 days and I have to say...I don’t get it. I don’t get how we’d realistically get to 25 mil Cap space to pay him and still be better for it. I also don’t know why you’d pay him that much.


He’s a nice player for sure. It just seems like the timing here is kinda off.

Why would he want to come off the bench? If he starts then why would Rubio want to come off the bench? If they both start then why would we want Devin guarding bigger wings?

I could keep going but you get my point. I just have trouble understanding how the moves that would need to be made to accommodate FVV would make this team better.

Because he’s better than Rubio? By a lot.

This team is a middle of the road team at best right now. At some point you have to make moves to improve the pieces that are the weakest links at the major positions

Nobody has ever said “let’s not get ___ because we already have Ricky Rubio!” except Suns fans. This place has a great history with hanging on to and overvaluing their mediocre talent (Len, Bender, Josh Jackson)

I wouldn’t hesitate to move Ricky in a second if it meant an upgrade at the position. He was a good PG for us, a significant upgrade since Goran Dragic. But he’s still worse than at least half the starting PGs out there.

Or you can love your mediocre players and hold them so dear to your heart and enjoy getting bounced in the first round at best the next 5 years.

[Drewsprocket]

Been reading all the FVV tweets etc the past 2 days and I have to say...I don’t get it. I don’t get how we’d realistically get to 25 mil Cap space to pay him and still be better for it. I also don’t know why you’d pay him that much.


He’s a nice player for sure. It just seems like the timing here is kinda off.

Why would he want to come off the bench? If he starts then why would Rubio want to come off the bench? If they both start then why would we want Devin guarding bigger wings?

I could keep going but you get my point. I just have trouble understanding how the moves that would need to be made to accommodate FVV would make this team better.

Because he’s better than Rubio? By a lot.

This team is a middle of the road team at best right now. At some point you have to make moves to improve the pieces that are the weakest links at the major positions

Nobody has ever said “let’s not get ___ because we already have Ricky Rubio!” except Suns fans. This place has a great history with hanging on to and overvaluing their mediocre talent (Len, Bender, Josh Jackson)

I wouldn’t hesitate to move Ricky in a second if it meant an upgrade at the position. He was a good PG for us, a significant upgrade since Goran Dragic. But he’s still worse than at least half the starting PGs out there.

Or you can love your mediocre players and hold them so dear to your heart and enjoy getting bounced in the first round at best the next 5 years.

I agree a lot with this. I do think Rubio is very good but doesn’t give us that edge we need in terms of being a guy who will go off when Book needs someone else to go off. He can be relied on to creates for others, takes care of the ball, defends well enough. Some nights he hits his shots and can hang 20. But with with the rest of the lineups we really need an excellent scorer in addition to what Rubio does. Perhaps if our roster were different, we could get by with Rubio deep in the playoffs but for now when players like FVV are available Suns FO have to jump.

[Ring_Wanted]

I think we can afford to add FVV and keep Rubio, at least for one season.

Rubio (25mpg)-FVV (30mpg)-Booker (35mpg) gives us a terrific backcourt, with 8mpg to play a Carter or a Bridges at SG.
Add Bridges (25mpg) - Oubre (30mpg) - Cam (25mpg) at SF/PF, plus Ayton at C (33mpg). We'd need a big (say Toppin to play PF around 15mpg and C about 15mpg) and we'd be set.

The other route would be drafting a PG and spending the free agent money on a big.

[ShelC]

There's no point in having Rubio and FVV on the roster at the same time. Creates an unnecessary logjam. Move Rubio and go all in with FVV or leave it alone and spend money on the rest of the roster.

[Split T]

I’m actually quite surprised how many people aren’t on board with FVV. It just seems like an obvious move if possible. I like Rubio, but VanVleet could actually be the pg of a title team. And I see no issue with Rubio off the bench.

[Split T]

Idk, Okoro is an archetype of a defensive player with strength & athleticism to bother players like Harden, Brown & Mitchell. Plus he's a ball mover and a good passer.

He can’t shoot though.

Neither could Jaylen Brown or Kawhi Leonard.

Neither could Josh Jackson

[Split T]

There's no point in having Rubio and FVV on the roster at the same time. Creates an unnecessary logjam. Move Rubio and go all in with FVV or leave it alone and spend money on the rest of the roster.

Except it doesn’t. A 3 guard rotation of Booker/FVV/Rubio is no logjam. Do we not realize how bad our backup guard situation has been? You know we don’t have to bring a g league level guy off the bench? It’s ok to have a starter quality guy come off the bench, that’s how you have a good bench.

[virtual9mm]

There's no point in having Rubio and FVV on the roster at the same time. Creates an unnecessary logjam. Move Rubio and go all in with FVV or leave it alone and spend money on the rest of the roster.

Except it doesn’t. A 3 guard rotation of Booker/FVV/Rubio is no logjam. Do we not realize how bad our backup guard situation has been? You know we don’t have to bring a g league level guy off the bench? It’s ok to have a starter quality guy come off the bench, that’s how you have a good bench.

That's a championship caliber backcourt right there IF either FVV or Rubio wouldn't mind coming off the bench. How many other holes would there be, though?