NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

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Superbone
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Superbone » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:30 am

In2ition wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:22 am
Okobo was by far the worst player on the floor and made matters worse when he saw the floor for the vast majority of games. He had a few decent games, but they couldn't come close to erasing how bad the team played when he saw the floor last year.
That's what I was going to say. Maybe he lost favor because he blows our leads every time he comes in.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by O_Gardino » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:00 am

None of our backup guards earned their minutes last year. They were by far the worst players in the rotation.

Carter was the best of the group with his energy and 3pt shooting. But he couldn't handle the ball or hit a shot inside the arc, and he made a ton of bad decisions.

Unfortunately, missed games by the bigs meant that we often played 2 of those backups together. They combined for 2,317 minutes - over 35 minutes per game.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by O_Gardino » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:02 am

That's why I think adding another quality guard is the most important goal of the offseason. It is also the hardest. There are several PFs available who could make us better. Jones will have to get creative to add a guard.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by In2ition » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:04 am

Carter became playable, when they moved him to a SG position while someone else handled the ball. Unfortunately, the Suns still didn't have a decent backup.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Split T » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:26 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:14 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:22 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am
This might seem wild, but one scenario that has me intrigued is the following(but I admit highly unlikely):

2. Buy a draft pick in the 2nd round and draft Arturs Zagars. I am not sure that he will even be drafted or will keep his name in the draft, but I really like this kid from Latvia. He's much quicker than Jerome, and I think he's a better passer and shooter than him(even though those are 2 of Ty's strengths). He's 2 inches shorter(6'3") and he's slight right now, but it doesn't mean a huge deal in the NBA as we see with Trae, Curry and Nash before them. He's also very good at finishing at the rim and has tried to copy Kyrie in this aspect. His bballiq and court awareness is outstanding, imo. He's like a lower usage Trae type of PG. His English is also already very good.
Honestly I never quite understood the Jerome selection... why are we in such a rush to draft more point guards when we didn't know what to do with the ones we already had on the roster (at the time Melton and Okobo, now Carter and Okobo, and Lecque). Didn't realize Jerome is 6'5. Also a little scary that a guy who is possibly not gonna be drafted in the 2nd round in this coming draft which is being panned as a weak one is better than Jerome whom we picked up in the late first in last year's stronger draft. I guess the defeatist in my as a Suns fan is kicking in.
This draft is weak overall, but not at the PG position. It's one of the strongest PG drafts we've ever had. I can't tell you who is going to shine and who exactly is going to bust, but time should tell. Jerome has a lot to like. He has strong skills and bballiq and court sense is very good. His problem is that speed and quickness is a liability at this time. Can it improve? Hopefully, but it's up to him. He needs to improve his strength, flexibility and his body fat % at the same time. That's not easy for everyone, and he may think he's at the peak of his potential in those matters. Honestly, he needs to learn what Nash did and take it to that level or he might just be an end of the bench guy for his career, if not move on to Europe or China.
I think it’s ok at the PG position, but I think it’s far from one of the best we’ve ever had. It’s one of the most pg dominant drafts we’ve ever had, but that’s mostly because the other positions are weak. 2017 was a better pg draft. I think Fultz, Ball, and Fox would all have been the top pg in this draft.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by In2ition » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:19 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:26 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:14 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:22 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am
This might seem wild, but one scenario that has me intrigued is the following(but I admit highly unlikely):

2. Buy a draft pick in the 2nd round and draft Arturs Zagars. I am not sure that he will even be drafted or will keep his name in the draft, but I really like this kid from Latvia. He's much quicker than Jerome, and I think he's a better passer and shooter than him(even though those are 2 of Ty's strengths). He's 2 inches shorter(6'3") and he's slight right now, but it doesn't mean a huge deal in the NBA as we see with Trae, Curry and Nash before them. He's also very good at finishing at the rim and has tried to copy Kyrie in this aspect. His bballiq and court awareness is outstanding, imo. He's like a lower usage Trae type of PG. His English is also already very good.
Honestly I never quite understood the Jerome selection... why are we in such a rush to draft more point guards when we didn't know what to do with the ones we already had on the roster (at the time Melton and Okobo, now Carter and Okobo, and Lecque). Didn't realize Jerome is 6'5. Also a little scary that a guy who is possibly not gonna be drafted in the 2nd round in this coming draft which is being panned as a weak one is better than Jerome whom we picked up in the late first in last year's stronger draft. I guess the defeatist in my as a Suns fan is kicking in.
This draft is weak overall, but not at the PG position. It's one of the strongest PG drafts we've ever had. I can't tell you who is going to shine and who exactly is going to bust, but time should tell. Jerome has a lot to like. He has strong skills and bballiq and court sense is very good. His problem is that speed and quickness is a liability at this time. Can it improve? Hopefully, but it's up to him. He needs to improve his strength, flexibility and his body fat % at the same time. That's not easy for everyone, and he may think he's at the peak of his potential in those matters. Honestly, he needs to learn what Nash did and take it to that level or he might just be an end of the bench guy for his career, if not move on to Europe or China.
I think it’s ok at the PG position, but I think it’s far from one of the best we’ve ever had. It’s one of the most pg dominant drafts we’ve ever had, but that’s mostly because the other positions are weak. 2017 was a better pg draft. I think Fultz, Ball, and Fox would all have been the top pg in this draft.
I was never all that huge on Fultz. I still think this one could be one of the best PG drafts.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Split T » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:36 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:19 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:26 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:14 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:22 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am
This might seem wild, but one scenario that has me intrigued is the following(but I admit highly unlikely):

2. Buy a draft pick in the 2nd round and draft Arturs Zagars. I am not sure that he will even be drafted or will keep his name in the draft, but I really like this kid from Latvia. He's much quicker than Jerome, and I think he's a better passer and shooter than him(even though those are 2 of Ty's strengths). He's 2 inches shorter(6'3") and he's slight right now, but it doesn't mean a huge deal in the NBA as we see with Trae, Curry and Nash before them. He's also very good at finishing at the rim and has tried to copy Kyrie in this aspect. His bballiq and court awareness is outstanding, imo. He's like a lower usage Trae type of PG. His English is also already very good.
Honestly I never quite understood the Jerome selection... why are we in such a rush to draft more point guards when we didn't know what to do with the ones we already had on the roster (at the time Melton and Okobo, now Carter and Okobo, and Lecque). Didn't realize Jerome is 6'5. Also a little scary that a guy who is possibly not gonna be drafted in the 2nd round in this coming draft which is being panned as a weak one is better than Jerome whom we picked up in the late first in last year's stronger draft. I guess the defeatist in my as a Suns fan is kicking in.
This draft is weak overall, but not at the PG position. It's one of the strongest PG drafts we've ever had. I can't tell you who is going to shine and who exactly is going to bust, but time should tell. Jerome has a lot to like. He has strong skills and bballiq and court sense is very good. His problem is that speed and quickness is a liability at this time. Can it improve? Hopefully, but it's up to him. He needs to improve his strength, flexibility and his body fat % at the same time. That's not easy for everyone, and he may think he's at the peak of his potential in those matters. Honestly, he needs to learn what Nash did and take it to that level or he might just be an end of the bench guy for his career, if not move on to Europe or China.
I think it’s ok at the PG position, but I think it’s far from one of the best we’ve ever had. It’s one of the most pg dominant drafts we’ve ever had, but that’s mostly because the other positions are weak. 2017 was a better pg draft. I think Fultz, Ball, and Fox would all have been the top pg in this draft.
I was never all that huge on Fultz. I still think this one could be one of the best PG drafts.
We’ll see. I haven’t spent much time scouting this draft, so my opinions could be pretty far off. I like Halliburton and Hayes. Maledon is interesting. I don’t know that Anthony Edwards is really a pg, more of a 2. He’s a physical talent, but struggling a bit this year. Cole Anthony was supposed to be a candidate for the top pick, but seems to have dropped to the end of the lottery. He got hurt before I ever really watched him, so not sure what to think there either. Nico Mannion should probably stay in school. As for LaMelo, I have no idea what to think. I haven’t watched him at all.

Most these guys have pretty underwhelming stats...admittedly I haven’t watched them much, but the fact that they’ve struggled as freshman gives me pause. Fultz, Ball, and Fox were all very good as freshman.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by O_Gardino » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:52 am

Haliburton is the only pg in this draft who is a good passer and a good shooter. And Haliburton isn't a "star" who creates offence for himself. Ball and Hayes could become good shooters. Haliburton could grow into a more aggressive role.

It's gonna be tough for this draft to beat '96 in terms of PG talent.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by In2ition » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:30 am

https://airalamo.com/2020/03/20/san-ant ... aliburton/

His jumpshot isn't a huge concern. I don't know if it's conducive to pull up midrange, but it kind of reminds me of Dave Hopla's shot form.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Split T » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Has anyone watched a lot of haliburton? He has good shooting numbers, but I have heard that he’s not much of a pull up threat.

I like haliburton because he just seems like a great all around player. He’s got size to defend multiple positions. He moves the ball well, he’s not ball dominant, could really fit in just about any lineup. Probably never a first option, but he could fill a lot of holes...I’m thinking like Iggy on the warriors. A little smaller, better shooter.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:26 pm

I still wish we had gone out and gotten Dinwiddie...


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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by pickle » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm

ShelC wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:53 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:22 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am
This might seem wild, but one scenario that has me intrigued is the following(but I admit highly unlikely):

2. Buy a draft pick in the 2nd round and draft Arturs Zagars. I am not sure that he will even be drafted or will keep his name in the draft, but I really like this kid from Latvia. He's much quicker than Jerome, and I think he's a better passer and shooter than him(even though those are 2 of Ty's strengths). He's 2 inches shorter(6'3") and he's slight right now, but it doesn't mean a huge deal in the NBA as we see with Trae, Curry and Nash before them. He's also very good at finishing at the rim and has tried to copy Kyrie in this aspect. His bballiq and court awareness is outstanding, imo. He's like a lower usage Trae type of PG. His English is also already very good.
Honestly I never quite understood the Jerome selection... why are we in such a rush to draft more point guards when we didn't know what to do with the ones we already had on the roster (at the time Melton and Okobo, now Carter and Okobo, and Lecque). Didn't realize Jerome is 6'5. Also a little scary that a guy who is possibly not gonna be drafted in the 2nd round in this coming draft which is being panned as a weak one is better than Jerome whom we picked up in the late first in last year's stronger draft. I guess the defeatist in my as a Suns fan is kicking in.

I think Jones/Monty/the FO knew they needed winning college vets on the roster, if only to bring a work ethic and professionalism to the lockerroom and practice court. 4 years of college weeds out the knuckleheads or guys who aren't serious about basketball. Staying and getting the experience of playing for winning programs, winning championships over 4 years can do more for a team than another raw, 18 yr old project with potential, even if they don't play much.
I have no issue with drafting older college players. I wasn't as upset about the Cam Johnson as most pundits, and I can understand what Jones is going for. My point is, we had several point guards on the roster already that were the hottest thing last year, and the Jerome pick seems to mark a move away from those players within 1 year. If we are looking at yet more pg prospects now, it would seem we will be moving away from Jerome again. Why do we not give our existing prospects a little more time and opportunity to fail? If we think Okobo is not the answer after leaving him on a shitty team with little support and pulling him after he gives up our leads, we'll likely be repeating the same with Jerome, and the same with whomever we nab in this upcoming draft. I'm a little sick of seeing our young guys go to other teams to become real rotation players. Chriss seems to have found a second life in SF, and Josh is no longer a detriment in Memphis. And Melton in fact held the highest +/- for the Grizzlies for a while... All of this frustrates me immensely.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by 3rdside » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:10 am

pickle wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm
ShelC wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:53 am
pickle wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:22 am
In2ition wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:35 am
This might seem wild, but one scenario that has me intrigued is the following(but I admit highly unlikely):

2. Buy a draft pick in the 2nd round and draft Arturs Zagars. I am not sure that he will even be drafted or will keep his name in the draft, but I really like this kid from Latvia. He's much quicker than Jerome, and I think he's a better passer and shooter than him(even though those are 2 of Ty's strengths). He's 2 inches shorter(6'3") and he's slight right now, but it doesn't mean a huge deal in the NBA as we see with Trae, Curry and Nash before them. He's also very good at finishing at the rim and has tried to copy Kyrie in this aspect. His bballiq and court awareness is outstanding, imo. He's like a lower usage Trae type of PG. His English is also already very good.
Honestly I never quite understood the Jerome selection... why are we in such a rush to draft more point guards when we didn't know what to do with the ones we already had on the roster (at the time Melton and Okobo, now Carter and Okobo, and Lecque). Didn't realize Jerome is 6'5. Also a little scary that a guy who is possibly not gonna be drafted in the 2nd round in this coming draft which is being panned as a weak one is better than Jerome whom we picked up in the late first in last year's stronger draft. I guess the defeatist in my as a Suns fan is kicking in.

I think Jones/Monty/the FO knew they needed winning college vets on the roster, if only to bring a work ethic and professionalism to the lockerroom and practice court. 4 years of college weeds out the knuckleheads or guys who aren't serious about basketball. Staying and getting the experience of playing for winning programs, winning championships over 4 years can do more for a team than another raw, 18 yr old project with potential, even if they don't play much.
I have no issue with drafting older college players. I wasn't as upset about the Cam Johnson as most pundits, and I can understand what Jones is going for. My point is, we had several point guards on the roster already that were the hottest thing last year, and the Jerome pick seems to mark a move away from those players within 1 year. If we are looking at yet more pg prospects now, it would seem we will be moving away from Jerome again. Why do we not give our existing prospects a little more time and opportunity to fail? If we think Okobo is not the answer after leaving him on a shitty team with little support and pulling him after he gives up our leads, we'll likely be repeating the same with Jerome, and the same with whomever we nab in this upcoming draft. I'm a little sick of seeing our young guys go to other teams to become real rotation players. Chriss seems to have found a second life in SF, and Josh is no longer a detriment in Memphis. And Melton in fact held the highest +/- for the Grizzlies for a while... All of this frustrates me immensely.
Bad ball clubs can't identify talent - I made the argument at the start of the season that getting rid of bad characters was a price worth paying to improve team culture but it's hard to justify when there's three dudes we jettisoned that all look like NBA players, two of them lottery picks.

I could have held the line if we'd kept Melton at least, but when that trade went down with him included, and not Okobo, I figured it was same ol' Suns.

Not that we can't improve but we're going to continue to be perceived as a stupid ball club if they all continue to get better, as current trends suggest they will.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Indy » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:21 am

Vladimir_Taltos wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:26 pm
I still wish we had gone out and gotten Dinwiddie...
I have been pining for him for a while. I would trade a lot to get him.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by The Bobster » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:35 am

Chriss's improvement is mainly because he's taking better shots now (60% withing 3' of the basket compared to only 39% as a Sun). So he's not really horrible anymore.

Jackson, same thing. Not 77% of his shots were within 3' of the basket this year compared to 57% as a Sun.

It makes you wonder how much was the player and how much was the coaching staff not knowing how to get the most out of a player. Cedrtainly too much was asked of them at a young age, but were they also asking for the wrong things?
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:39 am

Chriss, Jackson, and Bender all showed improvement under Triano. Watson and Igor were just placeholders.
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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:14 am

I miss Bender but not the others. Chriss was a marginal talent and Jackson was a knucklehead who made bad decisions on offense. If Jackson could shoot 3s better I might have had more patience for him. But I'm so relieved that he's gone. He drove me crazy. Best wishes to all of them in their new situations, but good riddance.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:17 pm

Yeah, kinda of the same verdict about those three. We failed miserably developing Bender (perhaps a complete lack of intend), handled the keys too early to Chriss, wich mess up his head big time and blunt his development because of a shallow sense of entitlement and Jackson... oh my... what a trainwreck was that, you can not blame this one exclusively on the organization.

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Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets

Post by Superbone » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:29 pm

Yeah, I like how Kerr has limited the scope of Chriss' play. Maybe Williams' would have done that as well.
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