Suns News: Coronavirus Break

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Superbone » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:22 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:14 pm
I agree. I like Gordon better for this team but Oubre is more skilled. I would pursue a KO for AG grade but expect more in return
:shock: Saucy... just said something nice about... Oubre.
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by 3rdside » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:23 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:52 am
3rdside wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:55 am
ShelC wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 am
Interestingly, Aaron Gordon wasn't mentioned in that article.
Wow, I thought I hated the thought of Gordon and his max contract but it's not max at all, and it's front weighted with 2 years left at $18m and $16.5m.

And there's a view that Gordon needs a creator which we've got (his stats bear this out - his best season was Elfrid Payton's last season there when he dished 6.3ast in 29 minutes. Since then it's been Augustin, with 5.3ast in 28mins last year, and Fultz with 5.2asts in 28 mins this year. Fair to say neither of those two are creators).

Looking at assists, Gordon has 3.7 a game, Kelly only 1.5 and if there was a criticism of Kelly from me it's that he goes tunnel vision too much.

Forget Kelly, make that trade already.
Kelly is more impactful than Gordon, and overall he is a better player. Gordon might be a better fit, but you can't make a straight up swap for the two players. The only way I would consider a move like this is if Orlando is throwing in the #15 pick.
Why not a straight swap?

Statistically they’re about the same - Orlando can justifiably price Gordon at his stats from 2 years ago when they had a better facilitator in Payton (or for the same reasons argue Oubre’s stats from Washington).

And Gordon’s 3.7 assists look might appealing to me vs Oubre’s 1.5ast tunnel vision.

He’s also locked up for two years whereas Kelly has only one year left - if he bolts, Orlando get left with nothing and we still have Gordon.

And it’s likely Gordon suits us more than Oubre suits Orlando, unless they’re happy starting Oubre at the 4 alongside Isaac at 3 or vice versa

These arguments might say we should give them a pick if anything, or am i overvaluing the length of Gordon’s contract?

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3rdside
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by 3rdside » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:27 am

I love this trade btw, to me assists mean a lot (in addition to what else a player brings of course) and we obviously need a PF, and Gordon is fun as hell.

Plus his 3pt % is acceptable (.336 and .349 prior to this season’s .301).

I’m convinced he will thrive alongside Rubio.

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by specialsauce » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:33 am

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:22 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:14 pm
I agree. I like Gordon better for this team but Oubre is more skilled. I would pursue a KO for AG grade but expect more in return
:shock: Saucy... just said something nice about... Oubre.
It took 4 hours to write that post and hit submit

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by ShelC » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:50 am


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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Split T » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:52 am

3rdside wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:23 am
INFORMER wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:52 am
3rdside wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:55 am
ShelC wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 am
Interestingly, Aaron Gordon wasn't mentioned in that article.
Wow, I thought I hated the thought of Gordon and his max contract but it's not max at all, and it's front weighted with 2 years left at $18m and $16.5m.

And there's a view that Gordon needs a creator which we've got (his stats bear this out - his best season was Elfrid Payton's last season there when he dished 6.3ast in 29 minutes. Since then it's been Augustin, with 5.3ast in 28mins last year, and Fultz with 5.2asts in 28 mins this year. Fair to say neither of those two are creators).

Looking at assists, Gordon has 3.7 a game, Kelly only 1.5 and if there was a criticism of Kelly from me it's that he goes tunnel vision too much.

Forget Kelly, make that trade already.
Kelly is more impactful than Gordon, and overall he is a better player. Gordon might be a better fit, but you can't make a straight up swap for the two players. The only way I would consider a move like this is if Orlando is throwing in the #15 pick.
Why not a straight swap?

Statistically they’re about the same - Orlando can justifiably price Gordon at his stats from 2 years ago when they had a better facilitator in Payton (or for the same reasons argue Oubre’s stats from Washington).

And Gordon’s 3.7 assists look might appealing to me vs Oubre’s 1.5ast tunnel vision.

He’s also locked up for two years whereas Kelly has only one year left - if he bolts, Orlando get left with nothing and we still have Gordon.

And it’s likely Gordon suits us more than Oubre suits Orlando, unless they’re happy starting Oubre at the 4 alongside Isaac at 3 or vice versa

These arguments might say we should give them a pick if anything, or am i overvaluing the length of Gordon’s contract?
Isaac is definitely a 4, they’ve had to play AG out of position at the 3 because of Isaac. Oubre fits nicely next to Isaac
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:58 am

But does Gordon's passing make that much of a difference on a team where he's the 3rd option taking passes from Rubio? The assists are great, but he's the main creator in Orlando.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by ShelC » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:11 am

I'm more concerned with his shooting and rebounding. If he's not a high level shooter spreading the floor and isn't a dominant rebounder then he's really just a bad tweener 4. I see him as a mix of Shawn and Amar'e - Shawn's shooting (tho he's not as bad clearly), Amar'es rebounding with the athleticism of both. He's also not a shotblocker or dribble drive threat, which I think is one of Oubre's clear strengths on this team since we don't have a lot of guys who can get into the lane for a basket.

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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Superbone » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:26 am

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:33 am
Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:22 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:14 pm
I agree. I like Gordon better for this team but Oubre is more skilled. I would pursue a KO for AG grade but expect more in return
:shock: Saucy... just said something nice about... Oubre.
It took 4 hours to write that post and hit submit
:lol:
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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by In2ition » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:46 am

If Orlando is offering the #15 pick and Gordon for Oubre, I would probably pull the trigger, tbh. It would be curious what the rest of the off-season, draft & FA would look like from there.

Gordon playing his more natural PF position next to Ayton, along with his passing and slightly improved rebounding would improve the team a little, imo.
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by 3rdside » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:42 pm

Gordon not being a great shot blocker - he’s only marginally worse than Oubre so call that a wash, likewise their shooting (Gordon will get better with Rubio and Booker, Oubre worse without).

And not being as good one-on-one I’m okay with also as being a better facilitator offsets this, and Gordon reminds me a little of Marion with his ability to be a trash points guy meaning he can fit in better with an offence that should be Booker / Ayton focused.

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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by 3rdside » Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:42 pm

If you value the players the same (statistically they more or less are) - and assuming no gain or loss in chemistry (a big if) - then it comes down to their respective contracts .. which one would you rather have?

The security of Gordon’s 2 years is better, as mentioned, especially if Oubre asks for big money in a year’s time and Gordon’s on the books for only $16.5m.

Even if you think Oubre’s definitely better (I can be convinced) then the contract difference might cancel out the talent difference, or if it doesn’t then the #15 is probably too much of a make up and a later first round pick might be fair.

But maybe the chemistry risk is the big one and the #15 is needed for us to get comfortable.

For me, I’m looking at Gordon as an underpriced asset and a better fit for us, Oubre as arguably redundant with Bridges and Johnson, and maybe soon to be overpriced. So if we get the #15 I think we absolutely win the trade at the outset, a later first rounder might be fair though I’d still be totally fine with a straight swap.

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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:44 pm

Stranger things have happened for sure, but Orlando is not giving up #15 and Gordon for Oubre who'll be free to walk in a year.
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by 3rdside » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:00 am

O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:58 am
But does Gordon's passing make that much of a difference on a team where he's the 3rd option taking passes from Rubio? The assists are great, but he's the main creator in Orlando.
My view is you can’t have too many playmakers as assists are a pretty good proxy for court awareness and selflessness and so, by default, chemistry creation .. it might not guarantee success but it will be a fun team to watch if nothing else.

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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Superbone » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:42 am

Two Suns test positive. :( Voluntary workouts shut down.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 240663001/
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. (Note: Requires full 82 game season.)

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3rdside
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by 3rdside » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:06 pm

This season just isn’t going to happen

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by ShelC » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:13 pm

We need to leak that it's Baynes so that teams are scared off in FA and we can sign him back on the cheap.

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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by bajanguy008 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:39 pm

3rdside wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:06 pm
This season just isn’t going to happen
I'm starting to lean this way also
NFL and College Ball have also had ppl test positive at workouts then factor in Orlando numbers going up
It's looking fairly shaky plus there is also this chatter now
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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Indy » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:01 pm

3rdside wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:06 pm
This season just isn’t going to happen
At this point, I would be surprised if next season starts before 2021 actually gets here. We are still in the first wave in the US in may states, and that 2nd wave it likely to be bigger than the 1st.

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Re: Suns News: Coronavirus Break

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:46 pm

I think the NBA has been thorough in their plans to try to get back to playing.

I'll try not to cross streams here, but I think it's fair to place the blame on those with authority above the NBA for this extensive delay and possible cancellation of American sports for the foreseeable future.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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