Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Split T » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:58 pm

Lineups with Oubre/Bridges at the 3/4 were quite good this year. I think Oubre off the bench could work, but I have zero concern starting those two together.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Shabazz » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:07 pm

If this team was fully healthy this season, this version of Mikal and Cam would’ve made it a playoff team.

We look quite good and we’re missing a 20 ppg and a very solid backup center who defends and stretches the floor.

Ayton needs to up the aggressiveness in a big way, though.

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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by djy2j » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:12 pm

Bridges is white hot. Most confident player on the team right now. Keep it up! Love what I’m seeing. Love what I’m hearing from other players and coaches.

Hoping Ayton wakes back up soon. Been sleepwalking mostly so far.

Hoping Booker steps up once the real games start. Been doing some nice facilitating but a bit more passive than I’d want my Star play to be.

Cam Payne brings some nice energy but man, his shot is a wreck.

Not sure how you can keep more than 1 of Kaminsky, Diallo, Jevon, Jerome, Okobo, Payne next year. I’d be fine with replacing all. Franks shots as looked better but his post game has been brutal. He’s not missing as many layups but partially because he travels or turns it over first
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by INFORMER » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:49 pm

Split T wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:54 pm
I’m still hoping for a Khris Middleton trajectory. Not sure he’ll ever get to that level of shooting efficiency from all levels, but I think Bridges is better defensively, so he can be a little less offensively.
That is the most interesting comp I've heard.

The shovel pass to Ayton was ridiculous.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Superbone » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:41 am

INFORMER wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:49 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:54 pm
I’m still hoping for a Khris Middleton trajectory. Not sure he’ll ever get to that level of shooting efficiency from all levels, but I think Bridges is better defensively, so he can be a little less offensively.
That is the most interesting comp I've heard.

The shovel pass to Ayton was ridiculous.
Same. I didn't like the other comps.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:56 am

Cap wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:54 pm
Bridges is an awesome 3&D guy who can also drive and make plays. Next season he’ll probably start, since he’s such an ideal complement to RR+DB+DA, and gives us the luxury of bringing Oubre off the bench to give some creative punch to the second unit. Hopefully we can find a good starting PF in the offseason and don’t have to resort to starting Bridges and Oubre together.
Presently you could start Oubre at the 3 and Bridges at the 4, but it isn't ideal. If Bridges keeps breaking out, that's the best argument for trading Oubre. I still like Oubre and want to keep him and don't want to overreact to a handful of strong games by Bridges yet. If Oubre were gone, you could make the case for starting Cam Johnson at the 4. A little undersized, but Bridges + Cam are both pretty decent defenders and could likely hold their own. A Bridges-Johnson-Ayton front line is not bad compared to most of the smaller teams in the league, and that frontcourt has great shooting, scoring, and general 1-on-1 defense. Would be weak against, say, Philly with their big lineups, or maybe the Lakers.

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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Indy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am

Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).

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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by bajanguy008 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:14 am

Yea Split been speaking that comp into existence even when Mikal started slow so kudos to him cuz it's not a bad take.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by bajanguy008 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:35 am

Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am
Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).
Although that has been generally the case this season , much like Mikal I am watching what he does now and thinking what it can mean going forward.
VanVleet got him a couple times on switches but for me he wasn't a glaring weakness y'day and his boxing out was fine. I'm probably watching him closer than most as I know we generally focus only on his 3pt shooting to gauge his performance
Ibaka didn't get any offensive rebounds against him and I remember laughing bcuz the first off reb came when Frank checked in. RHJ who's a good rebounder for his size was trying to muscle him around and he was solid boxing him out also.
I like how he is running the court but Lowry got him on charges but he does that to the best of them. He been ok attacking off one foot jumps but he has to go up stronger off two feet. I find he got blocked multiple times during the season trying to go up in the paint on close in shots.
Finally like EJ said I also pay attention to his pull up jumpers and he hit a couple playing with the bench guys game before and another one y'day which will be key

I wish I was into video editing to maybe back up my claims lol but I just believe he can develop into a solid scorer and not just someone we hopes hit some 3s nightly
Apologies for the long post :oops:
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:40 am

Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am
Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).
Idk if there is a huge difference between Cam starting at the 4 vs. Kelly starting at the 4. I would probably lean to Cam being the better team defender and slightly better rebounder, but much better shooter, worse as a slasher.

The NetRtg of the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Oubre, Ayton is 20.2

but the NetRtg of the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton is 20.2
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Indy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:54 am

In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:40 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am
Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).
Idk if there is a huge difference between Cam starting at the 4 vs. Kelly starting at the 4. I would probably lean to Cam being the better team defender and slightly better rebounder, but much better shooter, worse as a slasher.

The NetRtg of the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Oubre, Ayton is 20.2

but the NetRtg of the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton is 20.2
how many minutes for each of those lineups?

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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Indy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:56 am

bajanguy008 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:35 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am
Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).
Although that has been generally the case this season , much like Mikal I am watching what he does now and thinking what it can mean going forward.
VanVleet got him a couple times on switches but for me he wasn't a glaring weakness y'day and his boxing out was fine. I'm probably watching him closer than most as I know we generally focus only on his 3pt shooting to gauge his performance
Ibaka didn't get any offensive rebounds against him and I remember laughing bcuz the first off reb came when Frank checked in. RHJ who's a good rebounder for his size was trying to muscle him around and he was solid boxing him out also.
I like how he is running the court but Lowry got him on charges but he does that to the best of them. He been ok attacking off one foot jumps but he has to go up stronger off two feet. I find he got blocked multiple times during the season trying to go up in the paint on close in shots.
Finally like EJ said I also pay attention to his pull up jumpers and he hit a couple playing with the bench guys game before and another one y'day which will be key

I wish I was into video editing to maybe back up my claims lol but I just believe he can develop into a solid scorer and not just someone we hopes hit some 3s nightly
Apologies for the long post :oops:
long post? those are all good points. Post as long as you want!

I am taking these 2nd pre-season games with a pound of salt. I love what I am seeing from some of them, but I want to see what everyone looks like when games actually matter. It is easy to be great if nobody on the other team cares.

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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by The Bobster » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:06 am

They're somewhere between preseason games where players who are showing to be cut might see time, and regular season games where starters get their regular minutes.

I wouldn't read much into an upset like the Suns beating the Raptors or starter's numbers being down, but sustained quality play is always good to see.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by O_Gardino » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:13 am

bajanguy008 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:35 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am
Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).
Although that has been generally the case this season , much like Mikal I am watching what he does now and thinking what it can mean going forward.
VanVleet got him a couple times on switches but for me he wasn't a glaring weakness y'day and his boxing out was fine. I'm probably watching him closer than most as I know we generally focus only on his 3pt shooting to gauge his performance
Ibaka didn't get any offensive rebounds against him and I remember laughing bcuz the first off reb came when Frank checked in. RHJ who's a good rebounder for his size was trying to muscle him around and he was solid boxing him out also.
I like how he is running the court but Lowry got him on charges but he does that to the best of them. He been ok attacking off one foot jumps but he has to go up stronger off two feet. I find he got blocked multiple times during the season trying to go up in the paint on close in shots.
Finally like EJ said I also pay attention to his pull up jumpers and he hit a couple playing with the bench guys game before and another one y'day which will be key

I wish I was into video editing to maybe back up my claims lol but I just believe he can develop into a solid scorer and not just someone we hopes hit some 3s nightly
Apologies for the long post :oops:
Good take. I'll have to pay attention to Cam boxing out.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:15 am

Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:54 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:40 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:08 am
Cam is fine height-wise, but he is not a good defender or rebounded, and gets pushed around a ton. He isn't even close to being a starting 4 on a good team. If the Bridges we saw the last 15 games in for real, he can start at the 3 for a good team, and Kelly was fine at the 4 (but neither are ideal there).
Idk if there is a huge difference between Cam starting at the 4 vs. Kelly starting at the 4. I would probably lean to Cam being the better team defender and slightly better rebounder, but much better shooter, worse as a slasher.

The NetRtg of the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Oubre, Ayton is 20.2

but the NetRtg of the 5 man lineup of Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton is 20.2
how many minutes for each of those lineups?
Much higher in the Oubre lineup than the Johnson lineup. You could see that it wasn't a huge difference yesterday though. Small sample size theater though.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by O_Gardino » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:17 am

The Bobster wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:06 am
They're somewhere between preseason games where players who are showing to be cut might see time, and regular season games where starters get their regular minutes.

I wouldn't read much into an upset like the Suns beating the Raptors or starter's numbers being down, but sustained quality play is always good to see.
Very true. The Raptors just cruised because for them it was a warm up. We had a bunch of guys playing to prove they belong in the NBA and can win in our system.

Still felt good to win, though. :) And I think a lot of the things we did well are repeatable.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:19 am

O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:17 am
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:06 am
They're somewhere between preseason games where players who are showing to be cut might see time, and regular season games where starters get their regular minutes.

I wouldn't read much into an upset like the Suns beating the Raptors or starter's numbers being down, but sustained quality play is always good to see.
Very true. The Raptors just cruised because for them it was a warm up. We had a bunch of guys playing to prove they belong in the NBA and can win in our system.

Still felt good to win, though. :) And I think a lot of the things we did well are repeatable.
Agreed. I'll feel a lot better if the whole team was available, including Kelly, but I realize that we probably won't see him.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by bajanguy008 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 am

Yup no arguments with any of the above
Raptors starters especially Siakam definitely were cruising but I also think that Nick Nurse told them for the few minutes he sends them out in the 3rd to give a better effort and we responded
Even some commentators which I can't remember now are like "our games really start the 15th" or something to that effect which although I get the argument I don't see teams that already in just content to play subpar bcuz they're already in

Either way I think we can hang with anybody just the bench is a real issue but let's see how it goes
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by In2ition » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:22 am

bajanguy008 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 am
Yup no arguments with any of the above
Raptors starters especially Siakam definitely were cruising but I also think that Nick Nurse told them for the few minutes he sends them out in the 3rd to give a better effort and we responded
Even some commentators which I can't remember now are like "our games really start the 15th" or something to that effect which although I get the argument I don't see teams that already in just content to play subpar bcuz they're already in

Either way I think we can hang with anybody just the bench is a real issue but let's see how it goes
I get that, and there may be a little something to that, but it could also be an excuse given for their poor play.
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Re: Game Day (C19 Scrimmage 3): Raptors (46-18) @ Suns (26-39) Tues 7/28/20

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:24 pm

With a team this young, you have to take positivity and motivation wherever you can get it. These exhibition wins don't affect our record, but it's encouraging that we have played well.

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