Around the League: Season Resumes

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:12 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:42 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:40 pm
Exactly, and why while the rest of nba nation makes fun of us for the trade, hardly any suns fans miss him at all.
You know that trade is laughable, and it has nothing to do with fans missing him.
Fine, but it’s not the point I was trying to make. Just saying he needed to go. We clearly lost on value, but even with the bubble breakout, i doubt many suns fans wish he was still here.
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Cap
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Cap » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:15 pm

Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:40 pm
jonh wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:37 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:33 pm
bajanguy008 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:07 pm
My guess is he wouldn’t have played through it here
Which is why he was traded for cash considerations
Exactly, and why while the rest of nba nation makes fun of us for the trade, hardly any suns fans miss him at all.
Don’t you? I look at Oubre, and Bridges, and Johnson, and I think, “what this team needs is yet another starting SF.”

Nobody wishes he were still here. There’s no room for him on this roster. It’s just that, from an asset management perspective, couldn’t we have gotten better value?

Well, whatever. Nothing to be regained by relitigating the personnel moves of the Sarver era. It’s just too :barf:.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:27 pm



Bucks favored over Grizz
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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:29 pm

Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:27 pm


Bucks favored over Grizz
Free money.
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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Superbone » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:09 pm

Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:27 pm


Bucks favored over Grizz
So, you're saying there's a chance?
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Indy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:29 am

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:42 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:40 pm
Exactly, and why while the rest of nba nation makes fun of us for the trade, hardly any suns fans miss him at all.
You know that trade is laughable, and it has nothing to do with fans missing him.
exactly

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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by specialsauce » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:53 am

Cap wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:15 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:40 pm
jonh wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:37 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:33 pm
bajanguy008 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:07 pm
My guess is he wouldn’t have played through it here
Which is why he was traded for cash considerations
Exactly, and why while the rest of nba nation makes fun of us for the trade, hardly any suns fans miss him at all.
Don’t you? I look at Oubre, and Bridges, and Johnson, and I think, “what this team needs is yet another starting SF.”

Nobody wishes he were still here. There’s no room for him on this roster. It’s just that, from an asset management perspective, couldn’t we have gotten better value?

Well, whatever. Nothing to be regained by relitigating the personnel moves of the Sarver era. It’s just too :barf:.
You guys really think the Suns just called IND said we’ll give you TJ and a pick for cash, and that was it? You really think they didn’t try and shop and see what they could get for him?

I wanted him off the roster. I don’t miss TJ at all. I’m sure they tried to get whatever they could for him. I’m glad they pulled the trigger.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:08 am

The reason TJ had no trade value was the timing of the trade. Right before free agency when everyone has plans for their cap space? We sold low on TJ and bought high on cap space. There was even an article put out by I believe Kevin Pelton, or someone similar, who valued TJ Warren at like 30 million dollars over 3 years. His contract was for 35/3. So he was claiming the trade was fair value as the going rate for a high 2nd round pick is 3.5 million.

Now that’s not to say we still didn’t get taken advantage of. Indy had like 50 million in cap space that they weren’t going to use all of. TJ was a great use of 10 million of that. They knew we were desperate, and knew we’d cave. I’ll look for the article.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:10 am

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:53 am
You guys really think the Suns just called IND said we’ll give you TJ and a pick for cash, and that was it? You really think they didn’t try and shop and see what they could get for him?

I wanted him off the roster. I don’t miss TJ at all. I’m sure they tried to get whatever they could for him. I’m glad they pulled the trigger.
I don't know how most NBA trade talks happen. My assumption is that the Suns looked around and didn't see an obviously better deal for TJ at that exact moment. The criticism is more that they were impatient. If they wanted to trade TJ and the best deal that day/week was to pay a team a 2nd-round pick to dump TJ, then they should have waited, or else traded him sooner. It suggests a short-term mentality to just trade a guy for whatever you can get for him at that exact moment, rather than being patient and looking around for a reasonable deal, even if it takes a few weeks or months to get it done. It also leaves a foul taste in my mouth because it reminds me of other past trades where we paid an asset to get rid of a productive player, like sending picks to dump KT or Tom Gugliotta.

Another way to look at it is, if you pretend we had the best FO in the league, do you really think that's the best they could have done? They would have been constantly having conversations with other teams and GMs and would have had a better sense of what they could get for TJ, and they would have made something happen, even if it meant timing the deal differently. There's no way an elite FO would just dump an asset that valuable and pay for the privilege to do so.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:12 am

Split T wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:08 am
The reason TJ had no trade value was the timing of the trade. Right before free agency when everyone has plans for their cap space? We sold low on TJ and bought high on cap space. There was even an article put out by I believe Kevin Pelton, or someone similar, who valued TJ Warren at like 30 million dollars over 3 years. His contract was for 35/3. So he was claiming the trade was fair value as the going rate for a high 2nd round pick is 3.5 million.

Now that’s not to say we still didn’t get taken advantage of. Indy had like 50 million in cap space that they weren’t going to use all of. TJ was a great use of 10 million of that. They knew we were desperate, and knew we’d cave. I’ll look for the article.
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/ ... -tj-warren
If Warren were on the market as a free agent right now, I think he'd probably be looking for a three-year deal in the neighborhood of the non-taxpayer midlevel exception (worth a projected $29 million over that span). By comparison, the $35 million Warren will actually make over the next three seasons is a mild overpay, one that's offset by the Pacers getting a strong draft pick at the top of the second round.
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Indy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:16 am

The suns have been reactionary, instead of strategic/visionary. The good thing is that is seems Jones has a plan for what type of team he wants to build. The bad news is that he seems fine spending his resources in a way that doesn't get good value for them. But sometimes you have to take some pain in the beginning to get you on the right track.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:34 am

Yep, we had almost a total reset from when he took over. We payed a big price to do it, but we’re clearly in a better position now than we were before.
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specialsauce
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by specialsauce » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:41 am

He had to get rid of TJs salary to build the team the way he wanted. He didn’t want to wait around and go into the season with the same roster. I’m fine with it.

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ShelC
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by ShelC » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:44 am

It was a means to an end IMO. TJ in Phoenix probably didn't have a ton of value around the league. We used to debate this very thing. He's a scoring SF, albeit a good one, but doesn't possess great size, athleticism, defense, rebounding or passing and didn't seem enthusiastic about playing PF while also missing 20 games a year. He's kind of a poor man's Melo. Little use on a bad team, can be a boost to a good team. The more you shop a guy around and word gets out you're looking to move him, you lose leverage. There wasn't going to be some bidding war and regardless, the FO didn't have time for that with FA approaching. He's not Anthony Davis. Jones and Bower came in looking to revamp and shake the roster out quickly. We didn't move TJ in a straight salary dump like KT or Googs. We reallocated his money towards the point guard position and did pretty well there. The pick? I love high 2nd rounders as much as anyone but we're already the youngest team in the league. We need players and Jones said he wasn't using all the draft picks. You can talk about "value" but how many times did McD hold on too long to players to the detriment of the team? Markieff? Bledsoe?

Sometimes you just gotta take a loss and move on. And in this case, it wasn't even a loss. At worst it was breakeven.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:46 am

They should have just moved him at the deadline for an expiring contract. The previous deadline, not this years.
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Indy » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:00 am

Split T wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:46 am
They should have just moved him at the deadline for an expiring contract. The previous deadline, not this years.
Well, expiring plus a 2nd rounder. But yeah.

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Split T » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:58 am

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Superbone
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by Superbone » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:59 am

Good one, Split! Great stat!
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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bajanguy008
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by bajanguy008 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:12 pm

Hahaha

I see those ref stats in my football (soccer) threads
That's a first lol
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bajanguy008
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Re: Around the League: Season Resumes

Post by bajanguy008 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:47 pm

Like I was telling Split, no confidence in Bled
I rather pull for the Nets who sound like they will give it a go

Then there's always Tyler :oops: :)

SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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