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Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:02 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:58 am
In a perfect world, Payne proves worth keeping around and becomes our backup PG who can eventually take over the starting job maybe after next season.
:shock: Those are high hopes, Shel. I was positive about bringing in Payne, but I don't think there is potential for him to turn into a starter.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:14 pm
by Superbone
This is the perfect year for bringing Payne in. It is a Cam Payne year, after all.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:30 pm
by ShelC
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:00 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 am
Trading Rubio for TPE/capspace would do potentially irreparable harm to the organization. It would reek of Sarver selling off a valuable asset to save more money, putting finances ahead of success. It would leave us without a tried and true starting PG, a steady hand on the court, one of the league leaders in assists and a key part of the culture change taking place. What message would it send to Booker? Might be the final straw for him. And are we even sure he'd use the TPE to acquire a player(s)? Would we hit on a draft pick? Or a FA signing (we basically lucked out with Rubio)? We need the stability with the organization right now after the past 5 years of turmoil and turnover. Rubio has his flaws but he's exactly what we've needed.
You trade Rubio for the TPE with the intent on using the cap space elsewhere. No one is saying make that trade and then do nothing. And I think the only reason why any of those negative consequences you are predicting would come true is if the Suns did nothing after making that trade.
But the reason I'm predicting the Suns might not do anything with the TPE/capspace is because of Sarver and his latest actions. Last summer I understood us dumping TJ for nothing because we had a logjam at the position and needed to move that money to another position, which we did. Rubio fills a major need for us on the court and off it.

Also, a bird in the hand...

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:32 pm
by ShelC
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:02 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:58 am
In a perfect world, Payne proves worth keeping around and becomes our backup PG who can eventually take over the starting job maybe after next season.
:shock: Those are high hopes, Shel. I was positive about bringing in Payne, but I don't think there is potential for him to turn into a starter.
You never know. A former lotto pick and guards sometime take longer to develop. NBA size, speed, offense has come around, good defender so far. We don't need All-Stars at every position.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:34 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:32 pm
We don't need All-Stars at every position.
Agreed.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:40 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:30 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:00 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 am
Trading Rubio for TPE/capspace would do potentially irreparable harm to the organization. It would reek of Sarver selling off a valuable asset to save more money, putting finances ahead of success. It would leave us without a tried and true starting PG, a steady hand on the court, one of the league leaders in assists and a key part of the culture change taking place. What message would it send to Booker? Might be the final straw for him. And are we even sure he'd use the TPE to acquire a player(s)? Would we hit on a draft pick? Or a FA signing (we basically lucked out with Rubio)? We need the stability with the organization right now after the past 5 years of turmoil and turnover. Rubio has his flaws but he's exactly what we've needed.
You trade Rubio for the TPE with the intent on using the cap space elsewhere. No one is saying make that trade and then do nothing. And I think the only reason why any of those negative consequences you are predicting would come true is if the Suns did nothing after making that trade.
But the reason I'm predicting the Suns might not do anything with the TPE/capspace is because of Sarver and his latest actions.
Yes, but you don't make that trade without having a plan to use the money. A trade like that would put the Suns about $30 million under the cap. The Suns could add 3-4 players and still have money under the cap, which would still put them in a better financial position than they are now.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
by ShelC
It's not straight capspace tho right? The TPE means absorbing players into that freed up space, so we'd have to trade with another team looking to get rid of players for nothing.

Regardless, I don't take the chance with that trade and I wouldn't trust Sarver to use that space or Jones necessarily to make the right additions. We've had a TPE before and let it expire without using any of the money IIRC.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:01 pm
by ShelC





Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:04 pm
by Superbone
Hint: Suns are not playing today.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm
by In2ition
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
It's not straight capspace tho right? The TPE means absorbing players into that freed up space, so we'd have to trade with another team looking to get rid of players for nothing.

Regardless, I don't take the chance with that trade and I wouldn't trust Sarver to use that space or Jones necessarily to make the right additions. We've had a TPE before and let it expire without using any of the money IIRC.
Your right and it was malfeasance by the front office. Another money decision vs basketball decision.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm
by Superbone
Rankin's prediction is that we'll go 3-5.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:07 pm
by In2ition
Superbone wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm
Rankin's prediction is that we'll go 3-5.
Rankin's predictions aren't usually very good, iirc.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:17 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
It's not straight capspace tho right?
When a team under the cap acquires a TPE, it becomes cap spcae.
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
Regardless, I don't take the chance with that trade and I wouldn't trust Sarver to use that space or Jones necessarily to make the right additions.
Who is it that brought Rubio here?

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:23 pm
by ShelC
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:17 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
It's not straight capspace tho right?
When a team under the cap acquires a TPE, it becomes cap spcae.
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
Regardless, I don't take the chance with that trade and I wouldn't trust Sarver to use that space or Jones necessarily to make the right additions.
Who is it that brought Rubio here?
Supposedly after Rozier chose Charlotte for more money and Brogdon decided to go to Indy?

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:29 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:51 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm
Lonzo Ball. Jrue Holiday. FVV. Spencer Dinwiddie. All players I’d prefer to chase after.

I don’t hate Rubio. I just don’t see him as part of the next Suns contender.
Let's win 40 games first, then start talking about the next Suns contender.
40 wins won't keep Booker here.

You build to contend from day one. Otherwise, you put a ceiling on your team that can't breakthrough because you overpaid in pursuit of mediocrity.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:31 pm
by Superbone
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:29 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:51 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm
Lonzo Ball. Jrue Holiday. FVV. Spencer Dinwiddie. All players I’d prefer to chase after.

I don’t hate Rubio. I just don’t see him as part of the next Suns contender.
Let's win 40 games first, then start talking about the next Suns contender.
40 wins won't keep Booker here.

You build to contend from day one. Otherwise, you put a ceiling on your team that can't breakthrough because you overpaid in pursuit of mediocrity.
You can transition from one PG to another. Come on.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:43 pm
by INFORMER
Superbone wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:31 pm
You can transition from one PG to another. Come on.
It's not about just one position. It is about the entire roster. It's about the moves you made to pay Rubio $16+ million a year. It's about still having Rubio on the books in the 2021 offseason where the free agent class is insanely deep.

It's about missing significant opportunities to improve your team because you're committed to a situation that has a 40-win ceiling.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:50 pm
by Mori Chu
Superbone wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm
Rankin's prediction is that we'll go 3-5.
That sounds low to me. I think we may get some wins late because teams will have locked in the playoff seeds they want, so they may rest their guys while we are going all-out to win.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:56 pm
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:23 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:17 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
Regardless, I don't take the chance with that trade and I wouldn't trust Sarver to use that space or Jones necessarily to make the right additions.
Who is it that brought Rubio here?
Supposedly after Rozier chose Charlotte for more money and Brogdon decided to go to Indy?
Correct. But to be fair, Rozier averaged 18 ppg and hit 3s at a 40% clip. I wasn't interested in him though.

Re: Suns News: Season Resumes

Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:59 pm
by Superbone
INFORMER wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:43 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:31 pm
You can transition from one PG to another. Come on.
It's not about just one position. It is about the entire roster. It's about the moves you made to pay Rubio $16+ million a year. It's about still having Rubio on the books in the 2021 offseason where the free agent class is insanely deep.

It's about missing significant opportunities to improve your team because you're committed to a situation that has a 40-win ceiling.
OK, that makes some more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm still bummed we passed on Brandon Clarke. Every time I watch him play, I come away impressed.