Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:49 am

That game was a ride. I still can't believe we made it out with a win.

Cam was great. It's easy to forget because we went away from him in the 4th, but we would have been down 25 at the half without his play.

Great Game from Rubio.

Tonight and tomorrow, Bridges need to look himself in the mirror and decide how he wants to respond to this game. Is he content getting his minutes and a few nice defensive plays? Or is he going to keep challenging himself to grow?

Ayton was just scared of the matchup with KP. It's that simple.

One thing we've seen with Monty - the team often plays well after halftime.

I don't give Carter enough respect. He had yet another solid game.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by O_Gardino » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:50 am

Last one:

I wonder what Oubre thinks about the Suns winning without him? Maybe he feels some pressure to get back out there and prove that he's part of the team.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:19 am

O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:49 am
Tonight and tomorrow, Bridges need to look himself in the mirror and decide how he wants to respond to this game. Is he content getting his minutes and a few nice defensive plays? Or is he going to keep challenging himself to grow?

Ayton was just scared of the matchup with KP. It's that simple.
I don't agree with either of these.

I thought Bridges had a fine game. His priority was guarding Doncic and he did pretty well despite the refs blowing a whistle every time someone touched Doncic. So I thought he was very good defensively as usual and he took his shots in the flow of the game, they just didn't fall. He didn't hesitate and he didn't make mental errors. That's a win in my book.

Ayton on the other hand, was full of boneheaded stuff. He wasn't scared of KP, he was just out matched mentally and the refs compounded it by treating him like a rookie with the whistle.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by ShelC » Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:47 am

I'm still pretty livid over the refs and I hate to blame them in general and especially after a win but what they pulled last night on us was pure bullshit. You gotta let guys play and there were more than a few questionable calls on guys like Bridges and Rubio. Even the tech on DA was nonsense. Monty and Jones should have a call with the league and send them tape on some of those fouls. Book needs to start getting star calls and we need start getting some respect overall for our defense. This isn't the 2017 Suns.

But, we battled thru it, got the win and should be better for it. It's good Bridges kept playing Doncic hard, learned to play with fouls, learned to be in and out of the game and still stay engaged. His offense wasn't really there but he was working so hard on defense, it had to be sacrificed.

Anyone who watched the game saw the value in Rubio. Phenomenal line, held the group together late in the game, spoke up in the huddle and had the experience to get us thru. 20-9-7 on 7-17 and 2-3 from 3 with a +12.

Book still gets no respect and clearly isn't a star in the refs eyes. Even late in the game when he muscled in a layup and got bumped by THJ, no whistle. LeBron, Harden, Doncic, etc get that call. With the fouls he still dropped 30 in 31 minutes on 10-20 shooting.

Career game from Cam Johnson with 19-12-4. Who said he can't rebound!? Shot 6-11 and 4-8 from 3 and really kept us in the game in the 1st half I thought. Cooled off in the 2nd half but you can see him getting better and adding more each game. Even his ballhandling in transition gets you excited. I don't think he got too much time on Doncic but it's something that could work in the future. We haven't seen his ceiling just yet.

Carter gave us good minutes again defensively and hit some big 3s. He had some minutes on Doncic and was at least an annoyance as a smaller, stouter defender.

Payne gave us some big minutes and big plays again. He's got a good nose for the ball on the boards and really pushes it on the break. He can get into the teeth of the defense and put them on their heels which I love. 20 very solid minutes off the bench. Just needs to keep doing it.

KP can be a matchup nightmare with his size and length inside plus his ability to shoot 30 ft out. Was always going to be tough on DA but he's gotta learn to play without fouling and also learn to play with fouls. He and Bridges were visibly frustrated throughout the night, and rightfully so. Aside from Boban, who's anything but traditional, the Mavs don't really have a traditional big for Ayton to matchup with so it'll be interesting to see how future games play out with our teams. I thought Dario did as well as anyone guarding KP. Maybe Baynes could've helped but not sure he can stay with KP on the perimeter.

I said earlier in the year that I didn't think the Mavs really all that good. Carlisle's a great coach and Doncic and KP are great young players but their role players can go from looking like Spurs-level-contending role players to Gleaguers. Burke, DFS and THJ shot a combined 5-26. Luckily we got the GLeaguers last night. Didn't expect a win after the way the first half went but love that we pulled it out. Role players stepped up, defense held, and we live to see another day!
Last edited by ShelC on Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Wally_West » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:37 am


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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Split T » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:51 am

ShelC wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:47 am
I'm still pretty livid over the refs and I hate to blame them in general and especially after a win but what they pulled last night on us was pure bullshit. You gotta let guys play and there were more than a few questionable calls on guys like Bridges and Rubio. Even the tech on DA was nonsense. Monty and Jones should have a call with the league and send them tape on some of those fouls. Book needs to start getting star calls and we need start getting some respect overall for our defense. This isn't the 2017 Suns.

But, we battled thru it, got the win and should be better for it. It's good Bridges kept playing Doncic hard, learned to play with fouls, learned to be in and out of the game and still stay engaged. His offense wasn't really there but he was working so hard on defense, it had to be sacrificed.

Anyone who watched the game saw the value in Rubio. Phenomenal line, held the group together late in the game, spoke up in the huddle and had the experience to get us thru. 20-9-7 on 7-7 and 2-3 from 3 with a +12.

Book still gets no respect and clearly isn't a star in the refs eyes. Even late in the game when he muscled in a layup and got bumped by THJ, no whistle. LeBron, Harden, Doncic, etc get that call. With the fouls he still dropped 30 in 31 minutes on 10-20 shooting.

Career game from Cam Johnson with 19-12-4. Who said he can't rebound!? Shot 6-11 and 4-8 from 3 and really kept us in the game in the 1st half I thought. Cooled off in the 2nd half but you can see him getting better and adding more each game. Even his ballhandling in transition gets you excited. I don't think he got too much time on Doncic but it's something that could work in the future. We haven't seen his ceiling just yet.

Carter gave us good minutes again defensively and hit some big 3s. He had some minutes on Doncic and was at least an annoyance as a smaller, stouter defender.

Payne gave us some big minutes and big plays again. He's got a good nose for the ball on the boards and really pushes it on the break. He can get into the teeth of the defense and put them on their heels which I love. 20 very solid minutes off the bench. Just needs to keep doing it.

KP can be a matchup nightmare with his size and length inside plus his ability to shoot 30 ft out. Was always going to be tough on DA but he's gotta learn to play without fouling and also learn to play with fouls. He and Bridges were visibly frustrated throughout the night, and rightfully so. Aside from Boban, who's anything but traditional, the Mavs don't really have a traditional big for Ayton to matchup with so it'll be interesting to see how future games play out with our teams. I thought Dario did as well as anyone guarding KP. Maybe Baynes could've helped but not sure he can stay with KP on the perimeter.

I said earlier in the year that I didn't think the Mavs really all that good. Carlisle's a great coach and Doncic and KP are great young players but their role players can go from looking like Spurs-level-contending role players to Gleaguers. Burke, DFS and THJ shot a combined 5-26. Luckily we got the GLeaguers last night. Didn't expect a win after the way the first half went but love that we pulled it out. Role players stepped up, defense held, and we live to see another day!
Good stuff Shel. I was so annoyed by the refs, it was good to see our players not let that get to them and just keep playing. I did see Monty having a good chat with one of the refs. I think it was after Bridges got called for fouling Doncic when he ended up just passing it out of the post.

Carter played good D on Doncic, though I’m not sure why they didn’t send Luka into the post against him. They tried it against Bridges, but not Carter? Good for us I guess.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by da_suns_fan » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:16 am

Couple of thoughts:

1) Bridges is a keeper

2) DA just doesnt have it.

3) Looking at Luka's 40, I'm wondering. Of the last ten years of drafts, how many can we say we DIDNT screw up.

I can only think of one: Booker. And they WANTED Kaminsky.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by da_suns_fan » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:18 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:19 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:49 am
Tonight and tomorrow, Bridges need to look himself in the mirror and decide how he wants to respond to this game. Is he content getting his minutes and a few nice defensive plays? Or is he going to keep challenging himself to grow?

Ayton was just scared of the matchup with KP. It's that simple.
I don't agree with either of these.

I thought Bridges had a fine game. His priority was guarding Doncic and he did pretty well despite the refs blowing a whistle every time someone touched Doncic. So I thought he was very good defensively as usual and he took his shots in the flow of the game, they just didn't fall. He didn't hesitate and he didn't make mental errors. That's a win in my book.

Ayton on the other hand, was full of boneheaded stuff. He wasn't scared of KP, he was just out matched mentally and the refs compounded it by treating him like a rookie with the whistle.
Dude is too soft. I want him to be Amare. He's not Amare. If Amare got an offensive rebound (rarely), he's going to dunk it. He's not going to hesitate. He's not even going to THINK about kicking it back out. He's dunking it. Try to stop him.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Split T » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:21 am

He did have that play early, where he caught the ball, the lane was wiiiiide open and he dribbled in and dunked it. That was nice to see after he passed the ball last game with no one within 10 feet of him once.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by ShelC » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:21 am

I get that Ayton is a different athlete than Amar'e, but he shouldn't be getting stuffed around the rim either. He had issues getting the ball back up off an OR against the Wizards where I thought, even just a little bump or shoulder to create space gives him the room to go up and dunk it. Maybe he's still learning those nuances. Very frustrating to watch tho.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Cap » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:27 am

#BullySzn

:roll:

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Indy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:30 am

virtual9mm wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:27 pm
I really don't get the movement to dump Rubio, especially since Ayton can't really create his own offense yet -- he needs a pick n roll initiator.
Nobody is saying dump him. Some of us are saying that we need to get a PG in place that can manage the game and shoot the ball and not be a liability on defense. To his credit, he has done 1 and 2 the last couple of games, but for the season he has been bad at 2 and 3. And if we are going to keep spending 17M on him the next 2 seasons as our starting PG, we can continue to expect a relatively low ceiling.

A team that is 13th in the conference shouldn't be in such a bad cap situation going forward.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Indy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:30 am

Cap wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:42 pm
I wonder what happens if they sell 12,000 season tickets and then decide they can only safely fit 5000 in the arena.
I will let you know come December.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Split T » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:35 am

I’m actually happy with Rubio as a shooter. He’s at just under 36% from 3. He’s over 40% on spot up 3’s. No complaints there from me.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:55 am

da_suns_fan wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:16 am
Couple of thoughts:

1) Bridges is a keeper

2) DA just doesnt have it.

3) Looking at Luka's 40, I'm wondering. Of the last ten years of drafts, how many can we say we DIDNT screw up.

I can only think of one: Booker. And they WANTED Kaminsky.
He played well in our previous bubble games and has been having a nice season overall. I don't think it's fair to jump all over a guy when he has one bad game. KP and Boban are both weird/tough matchups for Ayton, especially when the refs are calling every ticky tack foul on us. Let's see how he bounces back in our next game.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Indy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:20 am

Split T wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:35 am
I’m actually happy with Rubio as a shooter. He’s at just under 36% from 3. He’s over 40% on spot up 3’s. No complaints there from me.
Which says he shouldn't be taking off the dribble 3s.

Like I said, the last 15 games from him have been really good, and if he could play that way for the next 24 months that would be great. I just don't see it continuing, and he will likely get back to his career average of sub 33% and still not have the defense.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Split T » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:24 am

Indy wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:20 am
Split T wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:35 am
I’m actually happy with Rubio as a shooter. He’s at just under 36% from 3. He’s over 40% on spot up 3’s. No complaints there from me.
Which says he shouldn't be taking off the dribble 3s.

Like I said, the last 15 games from him have been really good, and if he could play that way for the next 24 months that would be great. I just don't see it continuing, and he will likely get back to his career average of sub 33% and still not have the defense.
Ya that’s a concern. I’m hoping he was tired from his summer run with Spain and his shooting is legit.
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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Indy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:42 am

Split T wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:24 am
Indy wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:20 am
Split T wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:35 am
I’m actually happy with Rubio as a shooter. He’s at just under 36% from 3. He’s over 40% on spot up 3’s. No complaints there from me.
Which says he shouldn't be taking off the dribble 3s.

Like I said, the last 15 games from him have been really good, and if he could play that way for the next 24 months that would be great. I just don't see it continuing, and he will likely get back to his career average of sub 33% and still not have the defense.
Ya that’s a concern. I’m hoping he was tired from his summer run with Spain and his shooting is legit.
Maybe it will be like EJ alluded to and he can kind of turn into a late-stage Jason Kidd in Dallas with his 3 point shot.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by ShelC » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:44 am

I think it's pretty obvious he and Baynes hit the wall in November after their intl play in the summer. I mentioned in another thread, and EJ actually said it last night, that Rubio could have a Kidd-like trajectory with his shooting as he gets older.

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Re: Game Day: Mavericks (40-28) @ Suns (27-39), Sun 8/2/20

Post by Indy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:05 pm

ShelC wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:44 am
I think it's pretty obvious he and Baynes hit the wall in November after their intl play in the summer. I mentioned in another thread, and EJ actually said it last night, that Rubio could have a Kidd-like trajectory with his shooting as he gets older.
After I posted that I went and looked it up. In his entire 18 seasons, he only had 3 seasons where he was above 37% from three. Maybe we just had a different expectation back then about what was good, but today an average 3p% for guys that actually shoot them regularly is 37%.

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