Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

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Superbone
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Superbone » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:16 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:06 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:59 pm
We have to give Ayton more time. I listened to the Woj pod. Ayton didn't start getting serious about basketball until this year under Monty's tutelage. I shit you not.
Which just tells me that he doesn't really love the game and therefore doesn't have the desire to be great.
He loves the money and fame. He'll probably be suddenly aggressive and dominant in his contract year.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:17 pm

Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:16 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:06 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:59 pm
We have to give Ayton more time. I listened to the Woj pod. Ayton didn't start getting serious about basketball until this year under Monty's tutelage. I shit you not.
Which just tells me that he doesn't really love the game and therefore doesn't have the desire to be great.
He loves the money and fame. He'll probably be suddenly aggressive and dominant in his contract year.
Great. Let another team give him that contract.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by ShelC » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:20 pm

Yea but that's part of the problem for me. I don't think he's a basketball player thru and thru. It's not his life where he grew up in gyms playing since he's 8 and plays because he loves the game and wants to compete and win. I want a basketball player, not someone who plays basketball. Book is a basketball player. Cam, Mikal, Dario, Jevon...this isn't something they have to learn to take seriously because it's just what they do. Not saying he can't or won't improve, but I get nervous with the "he got started late so he's got potential/needs to learn" players.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:22 pm

Exactly. If he weren't a 7-foot athletic specimen with feet like a ballerina then he'd definitely be doing something else for a profession.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Superbone » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:32 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:22 pm
Exactly. If he weren't a 7-foot athletic specimen with feet like a ballerina then he'd definitely be doing something else for a profession.
Don't forget the hands. He's got the hands of a ballerina too!
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:42 pm

Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:32 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:22 pm
Exactly. If he weren't a 7-foot athletic specimen with feet like a ballerina then he'd definitely be doing something else for a profession.
Don't forget the hands. He's got the hands of a ballerina too!
Someone else mentioned it recently, but his hands are somehow soft and bad at the same time.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by specialsauce » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:43 pm

You cannot teach aggression. You guys tried this with Bender. A pussy is a pussy. They can improve their shooting, their passing, but the mentality is not going to develop any longer.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Superbone » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:52 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:42 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:32 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:22 pm
Exactly. If he weren't a 7-foot athletic specimen with feet like a ballerina then he'd definitely be doing something else for a profession.
Don't forget the hands. He's got the hands of a ballerina too!
Someone else mentioned it recently, but his hands are somehow soft and bad at the same time.
I think it was 'Bazz who captured it perfectly.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Charlie Smithy! » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:18 pm

Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:15 pm
djy2j wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:06 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:59 pm
We have to give Ayton more time. I listened to the Woj pod. Ayton didn't start getting serious about basketball until this year under Monty's tutelage. I shit you not.
He had a handful of serious games where it appeared the lights were on. They are definitely back off. I don’t want any part of a guy who, as a top pick, doesn’t appear to really like or understand the game at the End of his second season. Sell high.
He likes being #1 and getting a lot of money. I still remember a huge red flag after he was drafted where he marveled about what it would take to get that next big contract. He hadn't even played a game yet and he was talking about possible future earnings.
Yeah, I'm paraphrasing his quote, but he said that his biggest career goal was to get to his second contract.

We should have drafted Doncic, but based on what McDonough said, it sounds like Sarver overruled that possibility. As a Suns fan of almost 30 years, I've obviously had a lot of bitter pills to swallow, but this one sucks. A lot.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Nodack » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:18 pm

7-0 is awesome!

I am ready for Baynes to start and bring Ayton off the bench. Make him earn his minutes. I don’t care if he was a #1 pick. Seeing Booker be so aggressive and just take over has been awesome. Seeing Ayton fumble everything and be a total puzzy is getting ridiculous.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Nodack » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:19 pm

Indy wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:52 pm
Nodack wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:31 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:06 am
Nodack wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:44 am
That is true. Oubre is a 3 to me. Bridges, Cam and Oubre are all threes to me.
Mikal and Oubre have spent the majority of their time at 3, but Cam has spent the vast majority at 4. He has played almost 1000 minutes there this season. (I was surprised when I looked that up)
Cam does seem the tallest of the three and could fill in some as time goes by. I can see Cam as a legit 3.
Three? or 4?
Sorry, 4.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by virtual9mm » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:04 pm

ShelC wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:35 pm
virtual9mm wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:21 pm
O_Gardino wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:19 pm
You guys covered most of what I saw in the game, but I did want to point out that Carter went 1-1 and that one make looked pure. With Payne and Johnson and Ayton all playing poorly, I would have liked to see Carter get a couple more shots.

But that's an extremely minor complaint compared to what you all have already observed about Ayton. An off-game is one thing. Not having an alpha mentality in one thing. But today he looked like he was just waiting for the game to end. He's so disconnected at times that EJ doesn't even bother offering constructive criticism on the broadcast.
I wonder if there is something else going on or if he is just mentally out of whack with missing his COVID test.
I don't know what it was today but I think this was probably his worst game as a pro. He was not there mentally at all. Couldn't catch the ball, wasn't looking for passes from Book off PnR even when Book was blatantly looking for him and looking to set him up. Interior D was hardly there. Maybe fatigue or burnout, I don't know. Frustrating to no end.
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:39 pm
He's mentally weak. He's still a kid.
I agree with both of you. He's justifiably getting skewered for his boneheaded moves. He's 22 -- time for him to grow up a bit. How he plays against Dallas is going to say a lot about his character.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by virtual9mm » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:05 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:18 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:15 pm
djy2j wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:06 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:59 pm
We have to give Ayton more time. I listened to the Woj pod. Ayton didn't start getting serious about basketball until this year under Monty's tutelage. I shit you not.
He had a handful of serious games where it appeared the lights were on. They are definitely back off. I don’t want any part of a guy who, as a top pick, doesn’t appear to really like or understand the game at the End of his second season. Sell high.
He likes being #1 and getting a lot of money. I still remember a huge red flag after he was drafted where he marveled about what it would take to get that next big contract. He hadn't even played a game yet and he was talking about possible future earnings.
Yeah, I'm paraphrasing his quote, but he said that his biggest career goal was to get to his second contract.

We should have drafted Doncic, but based on what McDonough said, it sounds like Sarver overruled that possibility. As a Suns fan of almost 30 years, I've obviously had a lot of bitter pills to swallow, but this one sucks. A lot.
I'm still willing to give him a bit of slack but I'm starting to run out of patience. He's a boy running around with grown men at the moment.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Mori Chu » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:25 pm

I wanted Doncic as much as anybody here, but you guys are being too hard on Ayton. Give him some time. He has a ton of talent and does a lot of things well. He's getting better. He can be a huge part of our team going forward. It isn't time to give up on him yet or declare him a bust.

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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:44 pm

My point is that the Suns have basically until the 2021 draft to make a decision on Ayton. He's on the last year of his rookie deal for the 21/22 season, but typically the extension is finalized in the summer prior to that season. He'll be on the books for at least an average of $30M/year after that season, and I think he has a lot to prove before I'd feel comfortable with him eating up that much of the salary cap.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by djy2j » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:06 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:25 pm
I wanted Doncic as much as anybody here, but you guys are being too hard on Ayton. Give him some time. He has a ton of talent and does a lot of things well. He's getting better. He can be a huge part of our team going forward. It isn't time to give up on him yet or declare him a bust.
He hasn’t done much well in the bubble. Sure, it’s only 7 games but it’s been more noticeable pitted against the improvements of most of the rotation players. He has a ton of talent but it’s to the point where it’s obvious his teammates look him off because they don’t trust him. They appear to be getting frustrated with him like we are.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:14 pm

djy2j wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:06 pm
He has a ton of talent but it’s to the point where it’s obvious his teammates look him off because they don’t trust him. They appear to be getting frustrated with him like we are.
I've noticed this as well. They start the game trying to get him some good looks, but by the 4th or 5th possession, it's like they've moved onto a more ball movement oriented offense.

The other players have recently seemed to be less patient with his attempts at getting post position as well. I can remember countless times a teammate would waste 3 seconds trying to get him the ball and ultimately fail, but now it's like 90% of the time they just look him off and swing the pass the other way.

Ayton recently got a rebound (or maybe a lose ball) right under the rim, kicked it out, and then tried to get post position 3 feet further out from where he just secured the ball in the first place. It's stuff like that that just makes me think he'll never get it.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by ShelC » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:46 am

Some highlights










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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:42 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:46 am
Some highlights

The more we see of this, the more likely Saucy gets his wish.
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Re: Game Day:Suns (32-39) vs 76ers (42-28), Tues 8/11/20

Post by ShelC » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:51 am

Unfortunately it does seem like Oubre may be an odd man out given his contract situation and Cam stepping up. We still need depth on the perimeter but keeping Oubre may be a luxury we can't necessarily afford if Mikal and Cam are commanding their 30+ minutes. I'd love to keep all 3 because of the talent level and variety of skills but Oubre may find himself in the position TJ was in last summer.

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