Suns News: Offseason

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by In2ition » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:35 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:34 am
Thinking of it a different way, why would FVV want to come here if we don't get rid of Rubio? Wouldn't FVV want the PG spot to himself and not be crowded in by another starter-caliber PG?
Honestly, it may not even be the best way to build the team right now. I don't really think it's a huge upgrade to go with FVV on a much bigger contract over Rubio.
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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Indy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:26 pm

Rubio probably had the best half a season of his entire career. I wouldn't count on that continuing, and expect him to come back down to his career averages. FVV is a much better player.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:21 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:34 am
Thinking of it a different way, why would FVV want to come here if we don't get rid of Rubio? Wouldn't FVV want the PG spot to himself and not be crowded in by another starter-caliber PG?
Because he knows Rubio isn’t the long term pg. Also, Rubio probably moves to the bench.
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by 3rdside » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:49 pm

If the general view is that we can't win with Rubio, what the hell were Spain doing winning the world champs with Rubio as its MVP?

And with us going 8-0?

And Rubio being part of the best league lineups on a +/- basis?

Combo guard in the draft
Run Oubre and Cam at the 4 with Saric or similar
Go big next offseason when the virus is likely to still be around and get players cheap e.g. Oubre, who is long enough to play the 4 full time.

Stability and growth, not another (gd) year of PG round-abouting.

And how many times did we run the full, league leading Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Ayton lineup? Rarely, so let's run with it as it seems a good one.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:06 pm

I don’t think anyone is saying we can’t win with Rubio, but FVV is just better, and you can still keep Rubio. Adding FVV is such a no brainer move. He’s perfect for us.
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3rdside
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by 3rdside » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:07 pm

And the Utah Jazz went 50-32 with Rubio, then brought in Mike Conley averaging 21 and 6.5 asts, paid him $30m and did not improve.

I don’t think it’s wise to spend $40m on two starting PG’s at the expense of Oubre, but Toppin, FVV and Rubio (instead of, say, Oubre, Haliburton and Rubio) is interesting.

I don’t pull the trigger though for said stability and cost saving reasons, and Rubio will be a great mentor for the incoming guard.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:27 pm

3rdside wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:07 pm
And the Utah Jazz went 50-32 with Rubio, then brought in Mike Conley averaging 21 and 6.5 asts, paid him $30m and did not improve.

I don’t think it’s wise to spend $40m on two starting PG’s at the expense of Oubre, but Toppin, FVV and Rubio (instead of, say, Oubre, Haliburton and Rubio) is interesting.

I don’t pull the trigger though for said stability and cost saving reasons, and Rubio will be a great mentor for the incoming guard.
You don’t have to give up Oubre to get FVV. We can create the space to get him and keep Rubio and Oubre.

Also, yes the Jazz didn’t improve, but they didn’t regress. They struggled incorporating Conley a bit, but they actually improved their offense from last year. The defense was the problem. Conley and Mitchell are both little guards, plus they flipped Favors for Bojan in the lineup. That killed their defense.
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by 3rdside » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:56 pm

How much are you expecting to pay FVV?

If Rubio, FVV and Oubre is possible, the clincher might then be FVV coming off the bench (which seems to make more sense than Rubio coming off the bench as FVV is a scorer, unlike Rubio, although i guess there’s no reason Rubio couldn’t, it just doesn’t feel right and I’m pretty sure i wouldn’t want that anyway), and I don’t see FVV moving to stay on the bench.
Last edited by 3rdside on Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:48 pm

If we renounce everyone, we can pay him starting at 19 million a year, so that would be something a little over 4/80 I believe.

Trading down or out of the draft could create a little extra space if we think that’s not quite enough. My favorite idea would be to dump Ty Jerome somehow and save 3ish million.

As for who starts and who comes off the bench, I’d leave that to Monty. But you can easily find 30 minutes for both as they can both play with Booker and they can play with each other. I think Rubio might benefit from scaling back to 25-28 minutes anyways. Keep him fresh.
Last edited by Split T on Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by 3rdside » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:52 pm

I’ll call $20m pretty optimistic, but maybe not impossible considering current climate.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:56 pm

Ya I think it’s doable. Who else has cap space? Atlanta? They’ve got Trae. Hornets? They’ve got Rozier and Graham. FVV is better, but why would he want to go there? Pistons? Again why? And Pistons probably want to use space on Christian Wood. Knicks? I’d guess he won’t want to go there either. Pelicans? They gotta resign Ingram. Heat? Saving up for Giannis.

Honestly, I think the Raptors are the only real threat. If FVV wants to get a decent pay day and be in a good situation, it’s either stay in Toronto or come to Phoenix. Toronto might be in line for a reboot. They lost Gasol, Ibaka and FVV are free agents. Lowry is in the last year of his deal and is getting older. Do they see a future in FVV/Siakam? Can they get Giannis? Can they pay FVV and still have space for Giannis?

I don’t know the answers. I think it’s very possible he just re-ups with Toronto right away, but I think we’d be crazy not to try.
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by 3rdside » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:14 pm

Yeah I’d say he’d prefer staying as 6th man in Toronto over doing the same in Phoenix but if we give him the starter role and he’s happy with that salary ... I’m just not in favour of the former as mentioned (but perhaps I could be convinced about Rubio off the bench..).

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:48 am

FVV isn't nearly as good a passer as Rubio. Who will feed Ayton and others for easy baskets if FVV replaces Rubio? Will we run a mix of ballhandlers and a bit of Point Book? That worked out really well in the past...

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:54 am

Sure, but FVV is better than Rubio at everything else. And it’s not like he’s Mike James or Elie Okobo. He’s an actual pg and we still have Rubio on the team. Not to mention Booker is a very good passer himself.
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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Indy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:42 pm

Where can you find data on how many assists each player contributed to another player? Because it felt like other guys contributed to Ayton's assisted buckets quite a bit.

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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Superbone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:55 pm

How's FVV's lob game?
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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Indy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:01 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:55 pm
How's FVV's lob game?
Better than these other PGs Ayton has played with in just 2 years in the league.

Jevon Carter
Jared Harper
Elie Okobo
Ty Jerome
Isaiah Canaan
Tyler Johnson
Jawun Evans
Jimmer Fredette

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Cap » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm

Would be nice if Mr. 44 Inch Leap would use it in games.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Superbone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:01 pm

Indy wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:01 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:55 pm
How's FVV's lob game?
Better than these other PGs Ayton has played with in just 2 years in the league.

Jevon Carter
Jared Harper
Elie Okobo
Ty Jerome
Isaiah Canaan
Tyler Johnson
Jawun Evans
Jimmer Fredette
Of course. I'd more like to know compared to Rubio.
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Superbone » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:01 pm

Cap wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Would be nice if Mr. 44 Inch Leap would use it in games.
Agreed.
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