Suns News: Offseason

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Mori Chu » Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:50 pm

Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:10 pm
Nobody is interested in bringing Baynes back?
I think I'd rather have Rubio + Baynes + (Saric? Wood? other?) than FVV. VanVleet is a good player but I worry about how much money he'd want.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by In2ition » Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:56 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:50 pm
Superbone wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:10 pm
Nobody is interested in bringing Baynes back?
I think I'd rather have Rubio + Baynes + (Saric? Wood? other?) than FVV. VanVleet is a good player but I worry about how much money he'd want.
Where is the talk that Rubio is going to be gone if FVV comes in?

Sorry, Baynes is gone. The 13 good games wasn't enough to convince Jones to bring him back, imo.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:15 pm

Ya I really don’t think bringing in FVV means Rubio is gone. If FVV wants to be here, it’s actually pretty accomplishable without losing anyone from our core 6(Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio, Johnson) We have 19 million in cap space as we currently stand. If that’s not enough, we can move our pick, move back in the draft, or dump Ty Jerome. Those get us to 22-25 million. I think a 4 year deal starting around 20 million is fair value for VanVleet. Honestly, we might be able to get him without freeing up any space. Assuming he wants to be here. Sign and trades are also options if Toronto knows he’s gone. Say Jerome +10 for FVV and Toronto’s pick?
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Shabazz
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Shabazz » Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:10 pm

In2ition wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:52 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:40 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:58 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:30 pm
I'm with you guys. Paying $40M+ to have FVV and Rubio on the same team is not great resource allocation.
What's a better allocation of resources? I'm curious about this.

Felt to me, but probably not everyone, that the backup PG and SG were the two biggest holes last yr.
If we land FVV, the idea would be replacing Rubio with 2 of Alec Burks/DJ Augustin/Draft pick (Hali, Lewis, Hayes, Bane, etc), and then putting the extra money towards frontcourt depth.
True, but it does weaken your backcourt by doing that. May be slightly better than last yr, but definitely worse than having Rubio, Booker & FVV.
Sure. Slightly weaker backcourt, but better frontcourt.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by In2ition » Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:59 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:10 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:52 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:40 pm
In2ition wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:58 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:30 pm
I'm with you guys. Paying $40M+ to have FVV and Rubio on the same team is not great resource allocation.
What's a better allocation of resources? I'm curious about this.

Felt to me, but probably not everyone, that the backup PG and SG were the two biggest holes last yr.
If we land FVV, the idea would be replacing Rubio with 2 of Alec Burks/DJ Augustin/Draft pick (Hali, Lewis, Hayes, Bane, etc), and then putting the extra money towards frontcourt depth.
True, but it does weaken your backcourt by doing that. May be slightly better than last yr, but definitely worse than having Rubio, Booker & FVV.
Sure. Slightly weaker backcourt, but better frontcourt.
In theory sure, but depends on who you are spending that money on.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:50 am

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:15 pm
Ya I really don’t think bringing in FVV means Rubio is gone. If FVV wants to be here, it’s actually pretty accomplishable without losing anyone from our core 6(Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio, Johnson) We have 19 million in cap space as we currently stand. If that’s not enough, we can move our pick, move back in the draft, or dump Ty Jerome. Those get us to 22-25 million. I think a 4 year deal starting around 20 million is fair value for VanVleet. Honestly, we might be able to get him without freeing up any space. Assuming he wants to be here. Sign and trades are also options if Toronto knows he’s gone. Say Jerome +10 for FVV and Toronto’s pick?
I don't want to use #10 to secure FVV via sign and trade; this would be a fleece by Masai. And this would need to be done after we select somebody anyway, with an under the table deal between the three parties. Probably not feasible. Trading out/down would be the only way to maximize cap space, under the premise that you want to keep Rubio and Oubre, but this would be a gamble that could become another 2004 fiasco (remember the trade with CHI with our #7?).

If we keep the draft pick and those two players, we can offer FVV a deal starting at 21M (with Jerome and Leque dumped/used in a sign and trade), but my guess is if FVV takes said deal, the Raps keep him for themselves. Starting at $25m, I believe they thank him and let him go, but we can't get there without losing the draft pick, Rubio or Oubre. And this scenario still leaves us with a need at PF/C but no money beyond the room exception. Too many moving parts and question marks, but certainly a route worth exploring; I want to see how JJones manages his assets this time.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:07 am

He’s unrestricted though, so if he doesn’t want to resign in Toronto, it doesn’t matter what they think.
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by INFORMER » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:21 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:24 am
Still kinda meh on adding FVV at the cost of Rubio and Oubre.
It doesn't have to cost us that.
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by INFORMER » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:24 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:57 am
He's not a true PG
That's not true. Not even close. He has only recently played off the ball because he is unquestionable starter but the Raptors still have Lowry; FVV is a tremendous 3-point shooter, which allows him to play next to Lowry and the Raptors can get the best (or close to it) of both worlds. FVV has been a point guard his whole career (college & pros).
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by INFORMER » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:28 am

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:38 am
Bane probably doesn’t make it to 31, but the athletic mock draft still had him available.
Yeah, Bane won't be there at 31.
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by INFORMER » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:29 am

Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:30 pm
I'm with you guys. Paying $40M+ to have FVV and Rubio on the same team is not great resource allocation.
Thank you. There is no reason to hang on to Rubio if we can get FVV. Trade him now, because his value isn't going to get higher.
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by INFORMER » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:31 am

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:44 pm


Interesting
It would be a dream scenario for me if we can land Christian Wood and FVV.
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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by INFORMER » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:34 am

In2ition wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:56 pm
Sorry, Baynes is gone. The 13 good games wasn't enough to convince Jones to bring him back, imo.
Nor should it be. Baynes stats as a reserve (even per 36) are significantly worse. And going forward, that is what he'll be, a reserve. At his age and role, I can't see a realistic scenario where it would be smart roster-building to retain him.
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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Split T » Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:57 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:31 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:44 pm


Interesting
It would be a dream scenario for me if we can land Christian Wood and FVV.
It would cost at least Rubio, which is fine, because we’d be adding FVV, but we could potentially have a top 7 of Booker/Ayton/FVV/Wood/Bridges/Oubre/Johnson. I agree, dream scenario for me as well, especially if we keep 10 and add Haliburton.
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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by In2ition » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:50 pm

Might actually be Oubre that is traded to get both FVV and Wood. It's only an overpay on a position if you are completely neglecting another position, paying too much to any particular player or paying 3 guys big money in 1 position, imo. Since the backup PG & SG is kind of addressed with FVV, and backup C & backup or starting PF w/ Wood. You aren't neglecting any position.
"30 wins would be an extremely disappointing season" yeah, I said it and I mean it.

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djy2j
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by djy2j » Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:55 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:29 am
Shabazz wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:30 pm
I'm with you guys. Paying $40M+ to have FVV and Rubio on the same team is not great resource allocation.
Thank you. There is no reason to hang on to Rubio if we can get FVV. Trade him now, because his value isn't going to get higher.
I've said it several times before but I just don't see anyone trading for Rubio unless we're attaching a pick or something. He had a fine season but we were the only ones who wanted to pay him 17 mil a year and that's not going to change when owners are feeling the financial strain of the pandemic.

I also really don't see Sarver opening up his wallet during a time like this and signing a guy like FVV. Kelly would have to be gone. Having the salaries of Rubio and FVV seems like it would slow the rebuild. I think it would leave us vulnerable in other areas.
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Superbone » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:00 am

djy2j wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:55 am
Having the salaries of Rubio and FVV seems like it would slow the rebuild.
The rebuild is over dude. It's time to start winning games and filling the gaps with quality players.
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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:17 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:00 am
djy2j wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:55 am
Having the salaries of Rubio and FVV seems like it would slow the rebuild.
The rebuild is over dude. It's time to start winning games and filling the gaps with quality players.
Hopefully, it is.

That’s why I wouldn’t rush to trade that 10th, even on this shallow year. Many considered picking Cam a big reach, but he was instrumental to our 8-0 bubble run, so I wouldn’t mind if Jones got us another discrete but effective rotation player. A timely string of singles also get you around the diamond.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:57 pm

I'm still not going to believe any of this stuff is possible until it happens.

I'm not convinced that Sarver is willing and/or in a financial position to commit $20+ in additional roster salary this offseason.
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djy2j
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Re: Suns News: Offseason

Post by djy2j » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:49 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:57 pm
I'm still not going to believe any of this stuff is possible until it happens.

I'm not convinced that Sarver is willing and/or in a financial position to commit $20+ in additional roster salary this offseason.
This.

It ain’t your regular offseason. If Bob has an opportunity to disappoint fans he usually does. I fully expect them to take more of a “stand pat” approach.
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