Grade the Suns' Offseason

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.

What grade would you give James Jones & Co. for their offseason work.

A+
0
No votes
A
7
22%
A-
6
19%
B+
9
28%
B
5
16%
B-
3
9%
C
2
6%
D
0
No votes
(IN)F!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 32

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djy2j
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by djy2j »

A- but I'm grading on a curve. That curve being other Suns off-seasons under the Sarver regime.

The Paul move wasn't my first thought but it moves the needle forward. It's an upgrade and should help develop Ayton.

Not a fan of Crowder but he brings in defense which is never a bad thing.

Points were deducted for the over draft of Jaylen Smith, the signing of Damion Jones.

If I'm nit picking I'd hold off on signing Paul until we get another free agent to be able to go over cap more but Sarver probably said nope on adding more salary.

A score graded regularly would have it at a B.
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Wormwood
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Wormwood »

I gave it a B.

Loves:

CP3 is an upgrade at point

Likes:

Added come shooting in the backcourt

Neutral:

SMith. Good Jones guy. Passed on people who were likely better players, or filled a huge need.

Dislike:

Crowder and Saric. $18M per year on a couple guys who aren't great shooters, rebounders, defenders, or even above average NBA players. We could have done a lot better

Hate:

No real back up to CP3 or Book at PG. If either gets hurt this year, we're going to see some truly awful basketball with no PG on the court. Instead, Jones added what seems like 5 undersized shooting guards who can't create offense. If we miss the playoffs because of this, and passing on Haliburton, Jones grade drops to an F.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Mori Chu »

Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:37 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:04 am
I give this offseason an A-. I don't think I would have traded for Chris Paul, personally, at his age. I'm worried about his health and ability to play a full season. If he's healthy he will make us better for the next few years, though.
...
Are you this easy on your students?

Yeah, that assignment was so-so. I wouldn't have done it that way, and it may cause problems down the road. And you could have chosen this option, that looks to be a much better way, but I guess your way works. It seems fine. A-

:P
:-) I'm being somewhat generous. The fact that I wouldn't have traded for Paul doesn't mean it is a bad trade or makes us worse. It just incurs some risk that I would probably be too cautious to take on. But Booker seems thrilled with the acquisition, and the NBA analysts and fans on social media seem to think we made a great move. So if he is healthy, we may end up being much better for it. I wouldn't have done it, but it's probably a wash at worst and an improvement at best. Don't love the huge salary and the injury risk, but I accept it.

The reason I gave us an overall high grade is that we are clearly positioning our team to get better and to be a playoff team. That matters. And I do like the consistency with which Jones seems to be executing his team-building so far. Go get guys you trust, guys with high character, who work hard, and above all, get SHOOTERS. I think a lot of our success in the old days came from loading up the roster with guys who could shoot and score. It's good that we're getting back to that.

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jonh
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by jonh »

Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:37 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:04 am
I give this offseason an A-. I don't think I would have traded for Chris Paul, personally, at his age. I'm worried about his health and ability to play a full season. If he's healthy he will make us better for the next few years, though.

I like the Crowder signing. A guy like Crowder will get a lot of open looks in our offense, and he's a hard working veteran who will set a good example for the team.

I am so-so on the Smith draft pick. I feel like he'll be a solid pro, but I am dreading seeing Halliburton tear up the league and regretting passing on him.

I am glad we re-signed Saric. I think he can be closer to bubble Saric and less like inconsistent regular season 2019 Saric. We know his role better now, and so does he.

Most of the other signings like Moore and Galloway don't move me very much. They seem fine. I'm glad that most of the guys we are signing are plus shooters. That seems like a good thing to insist on for end-of-the-bench guys.

Overall this looks to me like a playoff team. I don't know if it's a contender, since the West is so brutal. But it's nice to think that we can reasonably have playoff expectations for the first time in a long while.
Are you this easy on your students?

Yeah, that assignment was so-so. I wouldn't have done it that way, and it may cause problems down the road. And you could have chosen this option, that looks to be a much better way, but I guess your way works. It seems fine. A-

:P
Sounds like someone who works in the public school system. :lol:

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Indy
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Indy »

jonh wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:24 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:37 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:04 am
I give this offseason an A-. I don't think I would have traded for Chris Paul, personally, at his age. I'm worried about his health and ability to play a full season. If he's healthy he will make us better for the next few years, though.

I like the Crowder signing. A guy like Crowder will get a lot of open looks in our offense, and he's a hard working veteran who will set a good example for the team.

I am so-so on the Smith draft pick. I feel like he'll be a solid pro, but I am dreading seeing Halliburton tear up the league and regretting passing on him.

I am glad we re-signed Saric. I think he can be closer to bubble Saric and less like inconsistent regular season 2019 Saric. We know his role better now, and so does he.

Most of the other signings like Moore and Galloway don't move me very much. They seem fine. I'm glad that most of the guys we are signing are plus shooters. That seems like a good thing to insist on for end-of-the-bench guys.

Overall this looks to me like a playoff team. I don't know if it's a contender, since the West is so brutal. But it's nice to think that we can reasonably have playoff expectations for the first time in a long while.
Are you this easy on your students?

Yeah, that assignment was so-so. I wouldn't have done it that way, and it may cause problems down the road. And you could have chosen this option, that looks to be a much better way, but I guess your way works. It seems fine. A-

:P
Sounds like someone who works in the public school system. :lol:
I was thinking more of the University of Phoenix's of the world.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Mori Chu »

Yeah well, I give both of you bozos a D- !!! Inflate THAT!

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:08 am
Man that bar we set the last 10 years is SOOOOO low.
Absolutely. But at least now the team has a defined identity with a top backcourt and solid pieces all around.

Still, my fear is that this is it, in the sense that we don't have a ton to make further relevant moves without sacrifizing big pieces. For instance, if a vet star becomes available via trade, you have to maul the roster just to match salary. Dario+Crowder+Ayton (or Bridges-Cam-Smith) make just around 30M combined. Preserving disposable salary mass (Oubre or gargabe contracts like Kaminsky+) with an eye on further improvement would have been good for the franchise.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by virtual9mm »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:07 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:08 am
Man that bar we set the last 10 years is SOOOOO low.
Absolutely. But at least now the team has a defined identity with a top backcourt and solid pieces all around.

Still, my fear is that this is it, in the sense that we don't have a ton to make further relevant moves without sacrifizing big pieces. For instance, if a vet star becomes available via trade, you have to maul the roster just to match salary. Dario+Crowder+Ayton (or Bridges-Cam-Smith) make just around 30M combined. Preserving disposable salary mass (Oubre or gargabe contracts like Kaminsky+) with an eye on further improvement would have been good for the franchise.
You need to give up value to get value. For instance, I could see the Suns giving up something like Ayton, Dario, and Crowder as the main pieces for a Giannis trade. Come to think about it -- a 5-man who can bomb threes would be the perfect fit for Giannis. Hmmmm...

In an ideal world, Ayton would play so well that we'd have second thoughts about trading him even for Giannis.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Sure you need to give value. But under a closed environment like the salary cap, it's alway good to have the flexibility. If you don't have it, teams will take advantage. In our case, we could have positioned ourselves better, but the owner prefered to save money.

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LazarusLong
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by LazarusLong »

B+ here.
Yeah, Paul is old and cranky, but he's only one of the best at his position.
I remember what Oscar Robertson did for the fledgling Milwaukee Bucks...

Crowder gives them a bit of toughness.
Have not seen Smith play, but he played well for a major team in a major conference.
Overall, the team has more flexibility and depth.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

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Cap
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Cap »

LazarusLong wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:51 am
B+ here.
Yeah, Paul is old and cranky, but he's only one of the best at his position.
I remember what Oscar Robertson did for the fledgling Milwaukee Bucks...
Are you casting Ayton as Alcindor?

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LazarusLong
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by LazarusLong »

No, hell no.
But Robertson was the glue that brought the talent together for the Bucks.
And Lew/Kareem marveled at the Big O's talent and savvy.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

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Shabazz
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Shabazz »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:07 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:08 am
Man that bar we set the last 10 years is SOOOOO low.
Absolutely. But at least now the team has a defined identity with a top backcourt and solid pieces all around.

Still, my fear is that this is it, in the sense that we don't have a ton to make further relevant moves without sacrifizing big pieces. For instance, if a vet star becomes available via trade, you have to maul the roster just to match salary. Dario+Crowder+Ayton (or Bridges-Cam-Smith) make just around 30M combined. Preserving disposable salary mass (Oubre or gargabe contracts like Kaminsky+) with an eye on further improvement would have been good for the franchise.
I don't really get this, RW. That star did become available and we traded the right-sized contracts for him. Oubre + Rubio was not getting us Bradley Beal or James Harden without 50 picks and Mikal attached. I think we not only struck while the iron was hot (unlike McD, who let perfect be the enemy of good), but we actually do have some flippable contracts should a player become available.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Shabazz wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:06 pm
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:07 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:08 am
Man that bar we set the last 10 years is SOOOOO low.
Absolutely. But at least now the team has a defined identity with a top backcourt and solid pieces all around.

Still, my fear is that this is it, in the sense that we don't have a ton to make further relevant moves without sacrifizing big pieces. For instance, if a vet star becomes available via trade, you have to maul the roster just to match salary. Dario+Crowder+Ayton (or Bridges-Cam-Smith) make just around 30M combined. Preserving disposable salary mass (Oubre or gargabe contracts like Kaminsky+) with an eye on further improvement would have been good for the franchise.
I don't really get this, RW. That star did become available and we traded the right-sized contracts for him. Oubre + Rubio was not getting us Bradley Beal or James Harden without 50 picks and Mikal attached. I think we not only struck while the iron was hot (unlike McD, who let perfect be the enemy of good), but we actually do have some flippable contracts should a player become available.
I am talking about moves going forward, after acquiring Paul. My point is that there were ways to maximize flexibility and that could be important if an opportunity arises for a star, but instead Sarver chose to save money.

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Nodack
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Nodack »

I think they were able to attract CP3 and Crowder by their play in the last eight games. It impressed a lot of people and changed impressions of the Suns. I wasn’t a huge fan of CP3. Then again I wasn’t a fan of Barkley, Ainge or Bell before they joined the Suns.

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INFORMER
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by INFORMER »

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:49 pm
I like the Galloway and Moore signings, but they also have very similar limitations and I may have preferred more size and/or shot creation out of one of those signings.
Yeah, I don't understand adding both. I also don't understand only having two point guards on the roster.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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INFORMER
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by INFORMER »

virtual9mm wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:27 pm
They got good value for Oubre (OKC flipped him for a late-mid first rounder) and given the sour grapes I'm hearing -- I say good riddance.
People are spinning and exaggerating his comments to feel better about trading him. He has sour grapes because he is a young guy that loved being here and didn't want to be traded. I don't blame him. I appreciate how much he loved Phoenix, how he bonded with his teammates, and how much he improved while being here.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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INFORMER
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by INFORMER »

O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:17 pm
What are the chances we really regret sending that 1st round pick to bring in Paul?
I'll actually back Jimmy Jones on this one. I think he was smart to send a 2022 pick and not a 2021 one. I also like the protection.

My complaint is that we sent out three assets and got nothing long term. The spin is that CP3 is an investment in Ayton and the team's development; we'll see if that comes to fruition.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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INFORMER
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by INFORMER »

ShelC wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:46 am
Throwing money at VanVleet wouldn't have guaranteed much more IMO and that would've really locked the team in for 4 years.
Having a young, productive 2-way point guard under contract for four years is a good thing, especially one with championship experience.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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Nodack
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Re: Grade the Suns' Offseason

Post by Nodack »

It seems to me that the Suns settled on Payne and Carter as the BU PG’s last year. Carter is sort of more a 2 guard but he did alright as a PG and I was really excited about Payne last year. Maybe they were all smoke and mirrors but, they were a big part pf the 8 game bubble streak. The Suns already spent a bunch of money. The PG position has been a complete revolving circus for several years. I like that those two were rewarded for their play to end the season and I hope their time here already only helps them to adapt to this year that much quicker. I could go for another BU PG too. Still I feel good about the position more than I have in a decade. If CP3 goes down we will obviously loose an important piece and nobody on the bench or brought in on a ten day is going to compare to. Nothing is ever perfect. The other guys will have to step up and Payne or Carter will have to bring it. PG Booker is always the other option. We have options.

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