Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

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djy2j
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by djy2j » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:09 pm

I didn’t hate Frank tonight. He really wanted to miss those bunnies. I could tell. He’s better than what Jones has brought so far. Not terribly far from Ayron either unfortunately.

When Saric comes back I’m all for having him start over Ayton. Just seems like things flow better when Ayton is on the pine.

Ayton is like the younger kid nobody wants to play with but your parents make you include him so you try your best until he starts crying and goes home. Then you can focus on the task at hand
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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Indy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:51 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:35 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:45 pm
carey wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:40 pm
I'm sure it was that he specifically asked not to be drafted by us. I probably would have said fuck it & drafted him anyway but I do like Smith. I like his confidence & I really think he'll eventually be really good stretch big for us.
Ya I think he can be good and it’s not fair to him to hold him to a higher standard, he didn’t decide to be picked at 10.

I do wonder why Hali wanted to play in Sacramento? What makes that situation better than ours? I think playing time would have been there for us too. He’s still behind Fox/Hield on the depth chart. Maybe it was actually New Orleans or Boston he was trying to get to and Sacramento just picked him anyways.
Yeah, I doubt he was trying to get to Sacramento with Fox and Hield. But hoping to fall to someone else seems iffy too. My bet is that Cam's success last year gave Jones a big head and he out thought himself here.
It was reported that Hali's camp was angling to get him to Sacramento (for some reason). Still, James Jones has to do what's best for the Suns, not Tyrese Haliburton. And getting a top-5 talent cost controlled for up to 7 years is something you have to do. He's 20. We've got a good group of guys. I think he would have eventually made peace with the situation, like Mikal did.
I wonder what kind of commitment Jones/Monty made to Paul. Or even Cam Payne for that matter.

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Split T » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:51 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:35 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:45 pm
carey wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:40 pm
I'm sure it was that he specifically asked not to be drafted by us. I probably would have said fuck it & drafted him anyway but I do like Smith. I like his confidence & I really think he'll eventually be really good stretch big for us.
Ya I think he can be good and it’s not fair to him to hold him to a higher standard, he didn’t decide to be picked at 10.

I do wonder why Hali wanted to play in Sacramento? What makes that situation better than ours? I think playing time would have been there for us too. He’s still behind Fox/Hield on the depth chart. Maybe it was actually New Orleans or Boston he was trying to get to and Sacramento just picked him anyways.
Yeah, I doubt he was trying to get to Sacramento with Fox and Hield. But hoping to fall to someone else seems iffy too. My bet is that Cam's success last year gave Jones a big head and he out thought himself here.
It was reported that Hali's camp was angling to get him to Sacramento (for some reason). Still, James Jones has to do what's best for the Suns, not Tyrese Haliburton. And getting a top-5 talent cost controlled for up to 7 years is something you have to do. He's 20. We've got a good group of guys. I think he would have eventually made peace with the situation, like Mikal did.
Was it reported that he was angling for Sacramento specifically? I just heard he was trying to tell certain teams not to take him and then when Sacramento picked him, people assumed that was his goal.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm

I think Haliburton is solid, but overrated by a lot of people.

He's on the small side for a wing, and he lacks explosiveness and a reliable shot off the dribble for those who want to say he's a point guard. He thinks the game well, which has a lot of value in my book, and he doesn't seem like a player who will really hurt his team very often.

I think his ceiling is the third best player on a playoff contender, and I guess that's pretty good compared to the projected talent of his draft class. I just don't agree with some people who seem outraged that some teams like the Suns passed on him. It's hard to directly compare him to Jalen Smith because they've vastly different players who will fill vastly different roles.

I see Wiseman, Edwards, Williams and Okoro as a level above everyone else in the class so far. Hell, if we're talking about point guards, I'd be more excited to have Cole Anthony than Tyrese Haliburton right now.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by bajanguy008 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:53 pm

carey wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:05 am
Anyone hear someone yell out the phrase "scary eyes" over & over at just over the 7 minute mark? Weird.

It's cool to see Cam Johnson averaging better stats than Coby White who was surprised Cam was selected where he was.
I think it was Ayton trash talking Hield after he tried a floater over him (some Bahamian banter between them it seemed)
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Shabazz » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:01 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm
I think Haliburton is solid, but overrated by a lot of people.

He's on the small side for a wing, and he lacks explosiveness and a reliable shot off the dribble for those who want to say he's a point guard. He thinks the game well, which has a lot of value in my book, and he doesn't seem like a player who will really hurt his team very often.

I think his ceiling is the third best player on a playoff contender, and I guess that's pretty good compared to the projected talent of his draft class. I just don't agree with some people who seem outraged that some teams like the Suns passed on him. It's hard to directly compare him to Jalen Smith because they've vastly different players who will fill vastly different roles.

I see Wiseman, Edwards, Williams and Okoro as a level above everyone else in the class so far. Hell, if we're talking about point guards, I'd be more excited to have Cole Anthony than Tyrese Haliburton right now.
If we’re talking bigs I’d be more excited to have Achiuwa than Jones right now.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by bajanguy008 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:02 pm

It's a bummer that I have to watch games on replay so can't comment real time.
"Off the dribble" Cam !! :D 8-) so glad that is coming along as I hoped, he mentioned a focus was getting stronger which was to be expected and putting his shoulder into Bagley for the easy and-1 gonna be the kinda drives there to be made all season when he gets chased off the line
another off-season comment I saw was Payne talking about getting after it on D is what he tries to do to change the game when he enters and how he and Jevon got close during the bubble because they have the same mindset and like to tag team opposing guards. I was like :? because I had not really been paying attention, just watching his offense but yea he has been very solid and disruptive on D in all 3 games so far.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:04 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:01 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm
I think Haliburton is solid, but overrated by a lot of people.

He's on the small side for a wing, and he lacks explosiveness and a reliable shot off the dribble for those who want to say he's a point guard. He thinks the game well, which has a lot of value in my book, and he doesn't seem like a player who will really hurt his team very often.

I think his ceiling is the third best player on a playoff contender, and I guess that's pretty good compared to the projected talent of his draft class. I just don't agree with some people who seem outraged that some teams like the Suns passed on him. It's hard to directly compare him to Jalen Smith because they've vastly different players who will fill vastly different roles.

I see Wiseman, Edwards, Williams and Okoro as a level above everyone else in the class so far. Hell, if we're talking about point guards, I'd be more excited to have Cole Anthony than Tyrese Haliburton right now.
If we’re talking bigs I’d be more excited to have Achiuwa than Jones right now.
Can't really debate that one. Tyrese Maxey as well.
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Charlie Smithy!
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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Charlie Smithy! » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:02 pm

One day, ayton and Jaylen Smith will be all-time NBA players, and we will all say what a great series it was.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Split T » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:32 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm
I think Haliburton is solid, but overrated by a lot of people.

He's on the small side for a wing, and he lacks explosiveness and a reliable shot off the dribble for those who want to say he's a point guard. He thinks the game well, which has a lot of value in my book, and he doesn't seem like a player who will really hurt his team very often.

I think his ceiling is the third best player on a playoff contender, and I guess that's pretty good compared to the projected talent of his draft class. I just don't agree with some people who seem outraged that some teams like the Suns passed on him. It's hard to directly compare him to Jalen Smith because they've vastly different players who will fill vastly different roles.

I see Wiseman, Edwards, Williams and Okoro as a level above everyone else in the class so far. Hell, if we're talking about point guards, I'd be more excited to have Cole Anthony than Tyrese Haliburton right now.
Haliburton attacked off the dribble and finished just outside the key a couple times these games I think. I remember one floater he made that showed some on ball scoring ability. Maybe it was a fluke, but I think there is a chance he’s got that ability. If he does, it really opens up his game and he becomes pretty dang good.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Danimal » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:44 pm

Decent win. Not much I can say that hasnt been said. But I will touch on Ayton.

With Ayton's offense, he is just too vertical. Dave king wrote an article last season about how he need to develop some dribble/faceup moves.
He gets the ball a tone in the highpost but only really wants to do a hand off. His face up game is either shooting a semi contested jumper or occasionally his backs his opponent down, but he doesnt get great position usually when he does and often fades away. The lack of face up moves limits our offense because if the opponent has to respect that then it puts a lot less pressure on the guard receiving the handoff. Kaminsky has the ability to do it, though it not always pretty, but it helps the flow of the offense. Even holmes had his little low cross over move when he was with us. Ayton has good mobility so it would be so valuable if he developed this. I remember one time against the mavs in a previous season he span on D Jordan whilst palming the ball with one hand and dunked it. The ability is there. He had one drive in the 3rd on holmes where he scored on a running hook, but he only drove as he was forced to since the shot clock was running down. Combine that with a improved 3 point stroke and we've really got something. Otherwise he's just a skinner whiteside with a marginally better jumper. I am not sure why its not more of a focus of the development coaching.

Sorry for the long post.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Danimal » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:47 pm

and I always start nervous laughter when Frank gets it under the bucket and then let out a mighty cheer when he makes an old man layup.

Can we keep a running total of how many dunks our non dunking centers have for the season? I think Dudley would approve of this.

So far I think its Ayton 1: Frank 0 (correct me if I am wrong)

Sadly I expect it to be reasonably close competition.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Indy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:48 pm

it is a good post. no need to apologize.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Indy » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:53 pm

Danimal wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:47 pm
and I always start nervous laughter when Frank gets it under the bucket and then let out a mighty cheer when he makes an old man layup.

Can we keep a running total of how many dunks our non dunking centers have for the season? I think Dudley would approve of this.

So far I think its Ayton 1: Frank 0 (correct me if I am wrong)

Sadly I expect it to be reasonably close competition.
If bbref is up to day, we have a total of 3 dunks as a team. Ayton, Mikal, Jalen. Wow.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by INFORMER » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:08 am

Superbone wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:18 pm
carey wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:09 pm
Wally_West wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:05 pm
This feels like a game where its close until the last 5 mins where we just fall apart. Happened to often last year.
That's why we're paying Paul $40M to prevent that.
Paid off tonight.
Honestly, his performance was on par with a number of Rubio's last season.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by INFORMER » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:13 am

Split T wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:25 am
Shoot me now.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by INFORMER » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:16 am

Split T wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:04 am
Mikal and Cam taking the leap to off the dribble scoring threats can make up for losing Oubre.
It can go a long way, for sure.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by INFORMER » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:19 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm
I think Haliburton is solid, but overrated by a lot of people.

...

I think his ceiling is the third best player on a playoff contender
That is a really high ceiling, especially compared to Jalen Smith.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by INFORMER » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:22 am

Ayton's struggles now is precisely why I scoffed at him working on his 3 ball. He has too much work to do in too many essential aspects of the game to waste time on a luxury. Take care of the meat and potatoes first; worry about dessert later.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (1-1) @ Kings (2-0), Sun 12/27/20

Post by Danimal » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:47 am

INFORMER wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:22 am
Ayton's struggles now is precisely why I scoffed at him working on his 3 ball. He has too much work to do in too many essential aspects of the game to waste time on a luxury. Take care of the meat and potatoes first; worry about dessert later.
Fair enough. My problem is he seemed to exclusively work on that. He already had a decent shooting stroke, so didn’t think it would be the only new thing we’d see this season/last bubble. The 3pt shot is still useful but it’s benefits to our offense are diminished without the attacking moves. Saric seems ok from the high post, just copy him but do it 3 times faster. Ayton seems to be focusing on things in the reverse order that Anthony Davis did.
The other thing is we’ve heard some general comments from the coaches etc on ayton re aggressiveness. If the problem is so obvious to us on the lack of face up game , then why aren’t they focusing on that. It’s not just about him not dunking under the hoop

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