Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
The Bobster
Posts: 4416
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by The Bobster » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:19 pm

Before long everyone here would be bitching about why Turner's only getting half the rebounds Ayton did and the Suns were getting killed on the boards every night.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm

Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 12427
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:00 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:19 pm
Before long everyone here would be bitching about why Turner's only getting half the rebounds Ayton did and the Suns were getting killed on the boards every night.
probably, but do you see Ayton fight for any rebounds? And at least they get to the FT line about the same. :)

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 12427
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
I agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 10948
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:05 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:19 pm
Before long everyone here would be bitching about why Turner's only getting half the rebounds Ayton did and the Suns were getting killed on the boards every night.
That’s a legitimate concern...we’d need him and Crowder/Bridges to step up on the boards.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 10948
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
It can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:15 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
I agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?
I'd have to look closer at the numbers, but a lot of the Pacers points in the paint came from transition or Sabonis going against defenders other than Ayton, IIRC.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 12427
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:32 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:15 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
I agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?
I'd have to look closer at the numbers, but a lot of the Pacers points in the paint came from transition or Sabonis going against defenders other than Ayton, IIRC.
Right. He wasn't defending the paint nearly as well as Turner. I think we were beat by almost 20 points there.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:42 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:32 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:15 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
I agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?
I'd have to look closer at the numbers, but a lot of the Pacers points in the paint came from transition or Sabonis going against defenders other than Ayton, IIRC.
Right. He wasn't defending the paint nearly as well as Turner. I think we were beat by almost 20 points there.
The way you word it makes it sound like Ayton was a sieve and Turner was a brick wall. I didn't see it that way.

Ayton defended 1-on-1 very well and had his usual lapses with help defense. If I were grading them, Turner would be an 'A' defender and Ayton a 'B+'.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:46 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
It can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.
I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Turner as much as stand up for Ayton, who I think isn't far behind Turner defensively.

Much like his offensive woes, Ayton needs to improve his defensive IQ. His poor defensive rating has a lot to do with his bad help defense. If he had 3 more seasons in the league like Turner, I think we'd be seeing him making far fewer mistakes.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 10948
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:58 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
It can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.
I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Turner as much as stand up for Ayton, who I think isn't far behind Turner defensively.

Much like his offensive woes, Ayton needs to improve his defensive IQ. His poor defensive rating has a lot to do with his bad help defense. If he had 3 more seasons in the league like Turner, I think we'd be seeing him making far fewer mistakes.
That’s fair. I’m not worried about Ayton defensively, I think he helps us more there than on offense. I do think Ayton is probably a bit more valuable overall than Turner, but he’s also gonna get paid like he’s a lot better, and he’s not.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:59 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:58 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pm
Ayton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
It can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.
I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Turner as much as stand up for Ayton, who I think isn't far behind Turner defensively.

Much like his offensive woes, Ayton needs to improve his defensive IQ. His poor defensive rating has a lot to do with his bad help defense. If he had 3 more seasons in the league like Turner, I think we'd be seeing him making far fewer mistakes.
That’s fair. I’m not worried about Ayton defensively, I think he helps us more there than on offense. I do think Ayton is probably a bit more valuable overall than Turner, but he’s also gonna get paid like he’s a lot better, and he’s not.
Yep. That's why James Jones had better be doing his due diligence now.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 19636
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Superbone » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pm
I wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
Yeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.
Don't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

User avatar
BKinSJC
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:36 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by BKinSJC » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:06 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pm
I wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
Yeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.
Don't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.
Original God of Playground Basketball.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 19636
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Superbone » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:07 pm

BKinSJC wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:06 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pm
I wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
Yeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.
Don't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.
Original God of Playground Basketball.
:D
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 4732
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pm

Y’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 12098
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Mori Chu » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:52 am

I wouldn't trade Ayton for Turner. But if some bottom-feeding team offered us a young player and an unprotected 1st-rounder for him, I would consider it. He may not be worth what he'll get on his next contract, and I hope Jones and Saver don't fall for maxing out a guy who isn't worth it. The worst-case scenario would be for him to show flashes at the end of this year, just enough to cause his market value to skyrocket based on potential, then have us sign him to a huge contract and discover he can't live up to it. I still have hopes for the guy, but at this rate I worry that he'll be just good enough to earn a dumb contract.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 19636
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Superbone » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:53 am

Just because he was the #1 pick doesn't mean his second contract should be affected by that. It should be based on his play. There's no freaking way he's getting the max based on that criteria.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 3942
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:31 am

Clint Capela is on a 5 year, $90M contract. Is there any reason Ayton won't get at least that?
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 12427
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:43 am

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:07 pm
BKinSJC wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:06 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pm
I wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
Yeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.
Don't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.
Original God of Playground Basketball.
:D
:lol:

Post Reply