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probably, but do you see Ayton fight for any rebounds? And at least they get to the FT line about the same.The Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:19 pmBefore long everyone here would be bitching about why Turner's only getting half the rebounds Ayton did and the Suns were getting killed on the boards every night.
I agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
That’s a legitimate concern...we’d need him and Crowder/Bridges to step up on the boards.The Bobster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:19 pmBefore long everyone here would be bitching about why Turner's only getting half the rebounds Ayton did and the Suns were getting killed on the boards every night.
It can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
I'd have to look closer at the numbers, but a lot of the Pacers points in the paint came from transition or Sabonis going against defenders other than Ayton, IIRC.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pmI agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
Right. He wasn't defending the paint nearly as well as Turner. I think we were beat by almost 20 points there.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:15 pmI'd have to look closer at the numbers, but a lot of the Pacers points in the paint came from transition or Sabonis going against defenders other than Ayton, IIRC.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pmI agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
The way you word it makes it sound like Ayton was a sieve and Turner was a brick wall. I didn't see it that way.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:32 pmRight. He wasn't defending the paint nearly as well as Turner. I think we were beat by almost 20 points there.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:15 pmI'd have to look closer at the numbers, but a lot of the Pacers points in the paint came from transition or Sabonis going against defenders other than Ayton, IIRC.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:03 pmI agree on blocks, but who was a better overall deterrent to paint scoring last night?Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
I agree. I'm not trying to diminish Turner as much as stand up for Ayton, who I think isn't far behind Turner defensively.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pmIt can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
That’s fair. I’m not worried about Ayton defensively, I think he helps us more there than on offense. I do think Ayton is probably a bit more valuable overall than Turner, but he’s also gonna get paid like he’s a lot better, and he’s not.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:46 pmI agree. I'm not trying to diminish Turner as much as stand up for Ayton, who I think isn't far behind Turner defensively.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pmIt can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
Much like his offensive woes, Ayton needs to improve his defensive IQ. His poor defensive rating has a lot to do with his bad help defense. If he had 3 more seasons in the league like Turner, I think we'd be seeing him making far fewer mistakes.
Yep. That's why James Jones had better be doing his due diligence now.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:58 pmThat’s fair. I’m not worried about Ayton defensively, I think he helps us more there than on offense. I do think Ayton is probably a bit more valuable overall than Turner, but he’s also gonna get paid like he’s a lot better, and he’s not.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:46 pmI agree. I'm not trying to diminish Turner as much as stand up for Ayton, who I think isn't far behind Turner defensively.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:08 pmIt can be overrated...but Turner isn’t Whiteside...he’s legitimately a good defensive player.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:36 pmAyton is better than Turner right now. It's pretty close, but Turner doesn't do anything in the paint offensively and I think blocks is probably the most overrated counting stat in basketball.
Much like his offensive woes, Ayton needs to improve his defensive IQ. His poor defensive rating has a lot to do with his bad help defense. If he had 3 more seasons in the league like Turner, I think we'd be seeing him making far fewer mistakes.
Don't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pmYeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pmI wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
Original God of Playground Basketball.Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pmDon't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pmYeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pmI wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
BKinSJC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:06 pmOriginal God of Playground Basketball.Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pmDon't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pmYeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pmI wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:07 pmBKinSJC wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:06 pmOriginal God of Playground Basketball.Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:42 pmDon't forget Muhammad. Not sure how Connie made the list though.Indy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:46 pmYeah I get we all hope Ayton turns into more than Turner, but we would all be praising jesus/yahweh/siddartha/brahma/hawkins if Ayton was averaging 4 blocks a game.Split T wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:40 pmI wonder if something could be worked out with Indy and Charlotte. I could see Charlotte being interested in Ayton and we know Indy is interested in Hayward. There’d have to be more involved but something surrounding an Ayton to Cha, Hayward to Ind, Turner to Phx is interesting. I know some of you think Ayton is worth a lot more than Turner, but I don’t really think he is. Turner provides great defense, he can stretch the floor offensively, and he’s not going to require 30 million to re-sign. Think he’s currently on an 18 million/year deal.
