Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:44 am
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I think the argument Turner vs DA might be closer than many here think. Turner averages 12 and 6 but with FOUR blocks and 1.6 steals. He should be a defensive player of the year candidate. His short comings are rebounds but he plays next to Sabonis who grabs rebounds. He hasn't figured out all his offensive abilities yet. Part of that I blame Nate McMillan in the past. I think DA has a much higher ceiling but I don't think he'll ever figure it out. I think DA's rebounding would also go down playing next to Sabonis.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
Jones doesn't have much of a track record of anything besides reaching on draft picks and going after high floor--regardless of ceiling height--guys. He hasn't given out any contracts to our draft picks because he hasn't been here long enough.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:23 amWhat about Jones track record makes you think he would overpay for DA?
James has largely avoided albatross contracts.
*cough* Chris Paul *cough*specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:23 amWhat about Jones track record makes you think he would overpay for DA?
James has largely avoided albatross contracts.
Who trades for DA or offer him a max? I think JJ will have to force DA into getting an offer sheet and force the team into a deal. Centers are gettable but I think we will manage to sign Ayton to a reasonable deal. We’d have the same record with Ricshaun Holmes. Anyway, it’ll be fine. Book, Cam Johnson and Bridges will have a lot of success together.djy2j wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:02 amI think the argument Turner vs DA might be closer than many here think. Turner averages 12 and 6 but with FOUR blocks and 1.6 steals. He should be a defensive player of the year candidate. His short comings are rebounds but he plays next to Sabonis who grabs rebounds. He hasn't figured out all his offensive abilities yet. Part of that I blame Nate McMillan in the past. I think DA has a much higher ceiling but I don't think he'll ever figure it out. I think DA's rebounding would also go down playing next to Sabonis.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
So i think you give the nod to Turner for defense and the slight nod to Ayton on offense. Just depends on what you value in today's version of an NBA Center to who's better.
There are 83 guys in the NBA making over 15M this year. Turner is certainly within the top 100 players in the NBA.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
Just because there are doesn’t mean those are team-friendly deals. Lots of horrendous contracts out there that will hamstring teams. You’re just flat out wrong on this Indy. Just accept it! Lol.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:05 amThere are 83 guys in the NBA making over 15M this year. Turner is certainly within the top 100 players in the NBA.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
Or not even a max. They could offer him 22M on average but front load it and see if we are willing to give him 25M for his first year (or something like that). Letting your guy go into FA (even restricted) is saying that you don't think he is worth locking up and announcing to the league he is available without offering any picks/players to trade for as long as you want to pay him.Split T wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:59 am*cough* Chris Paul *cough*specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:23 amWhat about Jones track record makes you think he would overpay for DA?
James has largely avoided albatross contracts.
In reality, it might not be up to JJ. All it takes is one team to offer a max and we either have to match or let him walk for nothing.
I think you may be underestimating how much even average players make in today's NBA. The 15th highest payroll in the league this year is 130M. And 123 guys are making at least 10M this year.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:06 amJust because there are doesn’t mean those are team-friendly deals. Lots of horrendous contracts out there that will hamstring teams. You’re just flat out wrong on this Indy. Just accept it! Lol.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:05 amThere are 83 guys in the NBA making over 15M this year. Turner is certainly within the top 100 players in the NBA.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
We’ve already had this discussion.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:14 amI think you may be underestimating how much even average players make in today's NBA. The 15th highest payroll in the league this year is 130M. And 123 guys are making at least 10M this year.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:06 amJust because there are doesn’t mean those are team-friendly deals. Lots of horrendous contracts out there that will hamstring teams. You’re just flat out wrong on this Indy. Just accept it! Lol.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:05 amThere are 83 guys in the NBA making over 15M this year. Turner is certainly within the top 100 players in the NBA.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
If he’s not worth 18 million, you should be able to find guys, not on rookie deals, that make less than him and are clearly better. My guess is there is just a couple and that’s all because they are underpaid. Like Christian Wood for example. Crazy that he just got paid and is already underpaid...especially when so many got overpaid this offseason.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:06 amJust because there are doesn’t mean those are team-friendly deals. Lots of horrendous contracts out there that will hamstring teams. You’re just flat out wrong on this Indy. Just accept it! Lol.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:05 amThere are 83 guys in the NBA making over 15M this year. Turner is certainly within the top 100 players in the NBA.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
This is a better point. Turner is essentially a 3rd guy. I’d argue he’s paid like a 3rd guy. Probably a higher end 3rd guy. But his deal is reasonable enough it still allows you to fill the roster around him. Especially if you have guys like Cam and Bridges on rookie deals.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:22 amWe’ve already had this discussion.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:14 amI think you may be underestimating how much even average players make in today's NBA. The 15th highest payroll in the league this year is 130M. And 123 guys are making at least 10M this year.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:06 amJust because there are doesn’t mean those are team-friendly deals. Lots of horrendous contracts out there that will hamstring teams. You’re just flat out wrong on this Indy. Just accept it! Lol.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:05 amThere are 83 guys in the NBA making over 15M this year. Turner is certainly within the top 100 players in the NBA.specialsauce wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 pmY’all do some good drugs ? Turner is not worth $18M and he is not as good as DA. NEXT
The elite teams in this league have 3 guys making near max deals, and then their role players are all on reasonable team-friendly contracts. The losing teams that fizzle in the playoffs hamstring themselves by overpaying role players $15M plus. It’s a recipe for disaster.
This is a star oriented league. You need to pay your stars handsomely and the rest of the pieces are easily replaceable. Role players WAR are generally NOT worth the extra cash. Paying Turner $18m per year will not give you that much better results as a team as paying a guy like Serge Ibaka the MLE and maximizing the value of your cap space.
Just because Charlotte gave Hayward that ridiculous contract doesn’t mean now all of a sudden it’s a winning deal to give Cam Johnson the max.
Turner is not a third guy. I completely disagree. He’s a role player. To me he’s completely replaceable at half the contract. I would feel the same about DA at anything beyond 15M.Split T wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:41 amThis is a better point. Turner is essentially a 3rd guy. I’d argue he’s paid like a 3rd guy. Probably a higher end 3rd guy. But his deal is reasonable enough it still allows you to fill the roster around him. Especially if you have guys like Cam and Bridges on rookie deals.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:22 amWe’ve already had this discussion.Indy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:14 amI think you may be underestimating how much even average players make in today's NBA. The 15th highest payroll in the league this year is 130M. And 123 guys are making at least 10M this year.specialsauce wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:06 amJust because there are doesn’t mean those are team-friendly deals. Lots of horrendous contracts out there that will hamstring teams. You’re just flat out wrong on this Indy. Just accept it! Lol.
The elite teams in this league have 3 guys making near max deals, and then their role players are all on reasonable team-friendly contracts. The losing teams that fizzle in the playoffs hamstring themselves by overpaying role players $15M plus. It’s a recipe for disaster.
This is a star oriented league. You need to pay your stars handsomely and the rest of the pieces are easily replaceable. Role players WAR are generally NOT worth the extra cash. Paying Turner $18m per year will not give you that much better results as a team as paying a guy like Serge Ibaka the MLE and maximizing the value of your cap space.
Just because Charlotte gave Hayward that ridiculous contract doesn’t mean now all of a sudden it’s a winning deal to give Cam Johnson the max.
My main point is I’d rather have Turner at 18 million than Ayton at 30 million. Paying non max guys the max is what really hurts. It’s why a team like the Warriors can be so far into the luxury tax with a mediocre team. They’re paying Wiggins 30 million a year. It’s why Cleveland has huge salary numbers and aren’t good(Drummond and Love)
The fear with Turner would be someone like Gary Harris. He hurts that Denver team because they’re paying 20ish million a year for a guy the Lakers have at the minimum(Wesley Matthews) But Turner isn’t Harris. He’s good, he brings a lot of value. There is an argument for paying a guy like Ibaka half the salary, but they aren’t the same players. Turner is better. You’re also only getting Ibaka at that salary if you’re one of a few teams.
So yes, there are better options than Turner at 18 million, but you can’t just always go find them easily. Remember when we thought we might have a shot at a PF for the MLE? Grant, Bertans, Gallo all got like 18-20 million. Wood was the steal at 13 million, but those guys are the exception.