Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:37 pm
ShelC wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 pm
What would Ayton be making at the max?
25% of the salary cap. Projections now have that starting at 28.75 million in year 1
on the bright side, at least CP3 comes off the books the same year Ayton would be due.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by BKinSJC » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 pm

Rookie max extension for Ayton would most likely be 25% of that year's salary cap (there are also 28% and 30% versions based on the "Rose rule," if you think that Ayton's likely to be an All-NBA level player, or make the All-Star team this year and the next or be Defensive Player of the year or MVP). As a player resigning with his own team, Ayton could then receive 8% salary increases per year, for up to a total of five years.

No telling what the actual numbers would be, since the salary cap is based on basketball revenue which may remain out of whack for a while, but based on this year's salary cap, it would start at $27,285,000 for the first year.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/nba ... 02021.html

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:46 pm

BKinSJC wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 pm
Rookie max extension for Ayton would most likely be 25% of that year's salary cap (there are also 28% and 30% versions based on the "Rose rule," if you think that Ayton's likely to be an All-NBA level player, or make the All-Star team this year and the next or be Defensive Player of the year or MVP). As a player resigning with his own team, Ayton could then receive 8% salary increases per year, for up to a total of five years.

No telling what the actual numbers would be, since the salary cap is based on basketball revenue which may remain out of whack for a while, but based on this year's salary cap, it would start at $27,285,000 for the first year.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/nba ... 02021.html
so year 5 is around 37M?

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:09 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:37 pm
ShelC wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 pm
What would Ayton be making at the max?
25% of the salary cap. Projections now have that starting at 28.75 million in year 1
on the bright side, at least CP3 comes off the books the same year Ayton would be due.
Do we think CP3 will stay past his current deal? I don’t get the feeling he is planning to retire in 2 years. I guess how this year goes will be important, but would we consider giving him a longer term deal to opt out of that 44 million dollar option? What would it take? 3/75? 3/90?

I’d be pretty thrilled at 3/75...3/90 would worry me.

I wonder because I don’t expect Sarver wants to pay the luxury tax. As we stand now, we have 9 guys under contract in 2021-2022 for about 125 million. The luxury tax is expected to be about 136 million. Add a draft pick for 2 million and we’ve got about 9 million under the luxury tax for 5 guys. I’d guess we’d want to re-sign Payne, who’s looking like he’s worth probably at least 6 million a year. If we want to be able to use our MLE without hitting the luxury tax, renegotiating Paul’s contract would be the easiest way.

Maybe you just do something like 2/70. Saves about 10 million in 2021-22 salary. That lets you re-sign Payne and add a MLE guy while staying under the Luxury Tax...of course 2022-23 would get very pricey with the Ayton/Bridges extensions.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:13 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:37 pm
ShelC wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 pm
What would Ayton be making at the max?
25% of the salary cap. Projections now have that starting at 28.75 million in year 1
on the bright side, at least CP3 comes off the books the same year Ayton would be due.
Do we think CP3 will stay past his current deal? I don’t get the feeling he is planning to retire in 2 years. I guess how this year goes will be important, but would we consider giving him a longer term deal to opt out of that 44 million dollar option? What would it take? 3/75? 3/90?

I’d be pretty thrilled at 3/75...3/90 would worry me.

I can't see him doing the 3/75. I mean, he gets 1 for 44, so 3 for 75 is deferring 20M in 2021/22 to recoup 31 over 2 more years. I would think he can get close to a 2 or 3 year deal at 20M when this one is over (if he lives up to his billing).

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:20 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:13 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:37 pm
ShelC wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 pm
What would Ayton be making at the max?
25% of the salary cap. Projections now have that starting at 28.75 million in year 1
on the bright side, at least CP3 comes off the books the same year Ayton would be due.
Do we think CP3 will stay past his current deal? I don’t get the feeling he is planning to retire in 2 years. I guess how this year goes will be important, but would we consider giving him a longer term deal to opt out of that 44 million dollar option? What would it take? 3/75? 3/90?

I’d be pretty thrilled at 3/75...3/90 would worry me.

I can't see him doing the 3/75. I mean, he gets 1 for 44, so 3 for 75 is deferring 20M in 2021/22 to recoup 31 over 2 more years. I would think he can get close to a 2 or 3 year deal at 20M when this one is over (if he lives up to his billing).
Ya just wishful thinking on my part. I won’t be surprised if we do work something out with him though. Or maybe we just go all in next year, pay the luxury tax and let CP3 walk in 2022.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:23 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:20 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:13 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:37 pm


25% of the salary cap. Projections now have that starting at 28.75 million in year 1
on the bright side, at least CP3 comes off the books the same year Ayton would be due.
Do we think CP3 will stay past his current deal? I don’t get the feeling he is planning to retire in 2 years. I guess how this year goes will be important, but would we consider giving him a longer term deal to opt out of that 44 million dollar option? What would it take? 3/75? 3/90?

I’d be pretty thrilled at 3/75...3/90 would worry me.

I can't see him doing the 3/75. I mean, he gets 1 for 44, so 3 for 75 is deferring 20M in 2021/22 to recoup 31 over 2 more years. I would think he can get close to a 2 or 3 year deal at 20M when this one is over (if he lives up to his billing).
Ya just wishful thinking on my part. I won’t be surprised if we do work something out with him though. Or maybe we just go all in next year, pay the luxury tax and let CP3 walk in 2022.
I think it depends on how impactful he is this year. If we end up being an 8th seed (or even a play-in team) and get bumped in the first round, I don't see us being willing to commit to him longer term, and I don't see Sarver being happy to pay his 44M next year.

Let's hope for a long playoff run either way!

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (7-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Wally_West » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:37 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:29 pm
Wally_West wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:33 pm
Suns win by like 60 points.
Changing course, I see. :D
;)

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:47 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:23 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:20 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:13 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:43 pm


on the bright side, at least CP3 comes off the books the same year Ayton would be due.
Do we think CP3 will stay past his current deal? I don’t get the feeling he is planning to retire in 2 years. I guess how this year goes will be important, but would we consider giving him a longer term deal to opt out of that 44 million dollar option? What would it take? 3/75? 3/90?

I’d be pretty thrilled at 3/75...3/90 would worry me.

I can't see him doing the 3/75. I mean, he gets 1 for 44, so 3 for 75 is deferring 20M in 2021/22 to recoup 31 over 2 more years. I would think he can get close to a 2 or 3 year deal at 20M when this one is over (if he lives up to his billing).
Ya just wishful thinking on my part. I won’t be surprised if we do work something out with him though. Or maybe we just go all in next year, pay the luxury tax and let CP3 walk in 2022.
I think it depends on how impactful he is this year. If we end up being an 8th seed (or even a play-in team) and get bumped in the first round, I don't see us being willing to commit to him longer term, and I don't see Sarver being happy to pay his 44M next year.

Let's hope for a long playoff run either way!
Agreed. This is all under the assumption that we are good... like western conference finals good. Or take Lakers/Clippers to 7 in the semi finals good.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by BKinSJC » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:34 pm

Indy wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:46 pm
BKinSJC wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 pm
Rookie max extension for Ayton would most likely be 25% of that year's salary cap (there are also 28% and 30% versions based on the "Rose rule," if you think that Ayton's likely to be an All-NBA level player, or make the All-Star team this year and the next or be Defensive Player of the year or MVP). As a player resigning with his own team, Ayton could then receive 8% salary increases per year, for up to a total of five years.

No telling what the actual numbers would be, since the salary cap is based on basketball revenue which may remain out of whack for a while, but based on this year's salary cap, it would start at $27,285,000 for the first year.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/11/nba ... 02021.html
so year 5 is around 37M?
$36 million and change in year 5, with the 5 year total coming to $158 million and change - all based on this year's numbers, of course. Real numbers by the time Ayton would be in line to start an extension would almost certainly be at least a little bit higher.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by specialsauce » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:35 pm
The Warriors aren’t as good of example as you think they are. They paid Bogut 13 million when they won the title, David Lee made 15 million. They benefitted hugely from a way under market deal that Curry was on. He was making like 11 or 12 million a year. Draymond was never making max money. All this, plus the huge cap jump in 2016 allowed them to sign Durant.

They are a 1 in a million scenario where they had a MVP on a cheap contract and had a 20 million dollar cap increase hit right before they had to re-sign Curry.
Okay.

The Celtics have 2 players making over $15M this year (will be 3 next year when Tatums deal kicks in).

The Lakers have 3 (Schroeder is right at 15M).

Clippers have 3 (if you count Batums albatross deal)

Miami Heat have 2.

These are smart teams and organizations that are built to have sustained success.


The dumb organizations overpay for role players. Spending $20M on someone who is not a franchise player is a death sentence. These players in general are luxuries but not true difference makers over their potential cheaper replacements.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Superbone » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:52 pm

Overpay it is then.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season!

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:00 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:35 pm
The Warriors aren’t as good of example as you think they are. They paid Bogut 13 million when they won the title, David Lee made 15 million. They benefitted hugely from a way under market deal that Curry was on. He was making like 11 or 12 million a year. Draymond was never making max money. All this, plus the huge cap jump in 2016 allowed them to sign Durant.

They are a 1 in a million scenario where they had a MVP on a cheap contract and had a 20 million dollar cap increase hit right before they had to re-sign Curry.
Okay.

The Celtics have 2 players making over $15M this year (will be 3 next year when Tatums deal kicks in).

The Lakers have 3 (Schroeder is right at 15M).

Clippers have 3 (if you count Batums albatross deal)

Miami Heat have 2.

These are smart teams and organizations that are built to have sustained success.


The dumb organizations overpay for role players. Spending $20M on someone who is not a franchise player is a death sentence. These players in general are luxuries but not true difference makers over their potential cheaper replacements.
I don’t think we really disagree here. I think we just disagree on Turners value. I think 18 million a year is fine for him. He’s a fringe DPOY candidate who can space the floor on offense.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Indy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:32 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:00 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:35 pm
The Warriors aren’t as good of example as you think they are. They paid Bogut 13 million when they won the title, David Lee made 15 million. They benefitted hugely from a way under market deal that Curry was on. He was making like 11 or 12 million a year. Draymond was never making max money. All this, plus the huge cap jump in 2016 allowed them to sign Durant.

They are a 1 in a million scenario where they had a MVP on a cheap contract and had a 20 million dollar cap increase hit right before they had to re-sign Curry.
Okay.

The Celtics have 2 players making over $15M this year (will be 3 next year when Tatums deal kicks in).

The Lakers have 3 (Schroeder is right at 15M).

Clippers have 3 (if you count Batums albatross deal)

Miami Heat have 2.

These are smart teams and organizations that are built to have sustained success.


The dumb organizations overpay for role players. Spending $20M on someone who is not a franchise player is a death sentence. These players in general are luxuries but not true difference makers over their potential cheaper replacements.
I don’t think we really disagree here. I think we just disagree on Turners value. I think 18 million a year is fine for him. He’s a fringe DPOY candidate who can space the floor on offense.
I know he has started this year with a bad 3FG%, so I had to look up his career average. It is the same as Booker's. :?

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by specialsauce » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:00 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:35 pm
The Warriors aren’t as good of example as you think they are. They paid Bogut 13 million when they won the title, David Lee made 15 million. They benefitted hugely from a way under market deal that Curry was on. He was making like 11 or 12 million a year. Draymond was never making max money. All this, plus the huge cap jump in 2016 allowed them to sign Durant.

They are a 1 in a million scenario where they had a MVP on a cheap contract and had a 20 million dollar cap increase hit right before they had to re-sign Curry.
Okay.

The Celtics have 2 players making over $15M this year (will be 3 next year when Tatums deal kicks in).

The Lakers have 3 (Schroeder is right at 15M).

Clippers have 3 (if you count Batums albatross deal)

Miami Heat have 2.

These are smart teams and organizations that are built to have sustained success.


The dumb organizations overpay for role players. Spending $20M on someone who is not a franchise player is a death sentence. These players in general are luxuries but not true difference makers over their potential cheaper replacements.
I don’t think we really disagree here. I think we just disagree on Turners value. I think 18 million a year is fine for him. He’s a fringe DPOY candidate who can space the floor on offense.
You would make him
One of your 3 highly paid players?

Wow- totally disagree on his value. He’s so replaceable to me.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:03 pm

I'm in agreement with Saucy. Turner is overpaid, and it's been long rumored that the Pacers would like to trade him but no teams are willing to give up a good asset and pay Turner his salary.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:14 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:03 pm
I'm in agreement with Saucy. Turner is overpaid, and it's been long rumored that the Pacers would like to trade him but no teams are willing to give up a good asset and pay Turner his salary.
I think it’s mostly because he’s not a great fit with Sabonis and Sabonis is better.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:17 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:00 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:00 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:35 pm
The Warriors aren’t as good of example as you think they are. They paid Bogut 13 million when they won the title, David Lee made 15 million. They benefitted hugely from a way under market deal that Curry was on. He was making like 11 or 12 million a year. Draymond was never making max money. All this, plus the huge cap jump in 2016 allowed them to sign Durant.

They are a 1 in a million scenario where they had a MVP on a cheap contract and had a 20 million dollar cap increase hit right before they had to re-sign Curry.
Okay.

The Celtics have 2 players making over $15M this year (will be 3 next year when Tatums deal kicks in).

The Lakers have 3 (Schroeder is right at 15M).

Clippers have 3 (if you count Batums albatross deal)

Miami Heat have 2.

These are smart teams and organizations that are built to have sustained success.


The dumb organizations overpay for role players. Spending $20M on someone who is not a franchise player is a death sentence. These players in general are luxuries but not true difference makers over their potential cheaper replacements.
I don’t think we really disagree here. I think we just disagree on Turners value. I think 18 million a year is fine for him. He’s a fringe DPOY candidate who can space the floor on offense.
You would make him
One of your 3 highly paid players?

Wow- totally disagree on his value. He’s so replaceable to me.
Would depend on my other players. Indy has been a very good team with him as a top 3 paid guy. I’m curious what you’d be willing to pay this current version of Ayton?
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:19 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:14 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:03 pm
I'm in agreement with Saucy. Turner is overpaid, and it's been long rumored that the Pacers would like to trade him but no teams are willing to give up a good asset and pay Turner his salary.
I think it’s mostly because he’s not a great fit with Sabonis and Sabonis is better.
Sure, but that doesn't change other teams' opinion of Turner.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (6-3) @ Pacers (6-2), Sat 1/9/21

Post by Split T » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:21 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:19 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:14 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:03 pm
I'm in agreement with Saucy. Turner is overpaid, and it's been long rumored that the Pacers would like to trade him but no teams are willing to give up a good asset and pay Turner his salary.
I think it’s mostly because he’s not a great fit with Sabonis and Sabonis is better.
Sure, but that doesn't change other teams' opinion of Turner.
Fair, perhaps Indy is asking too much. Boston not taking him in a s&t for Hayward seems pretty dumb from Boston’s perspective.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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