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I think they'd have to eat Capelas deal too to get Collins. Not saying I wouldn't, because I totally would, just can't see how it fits with Collins needing money and Bridges up soon too.

Supposedly the asking price for Collins is an early first and/or talented young player.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:22 pm

Supposedly the asking price for Collins is an early first and/or talented young player.

Does Ayton count as a talented young player? With Capela there, I’m not sure they’d be super into Ayton. You might need a 3rd team.

Well worth it.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:24 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:22 pm

Supposedly the asking price for Collins is an early first and/or talented young player.

Does Ayton count as a talented young player? With Capela there, I’m not sure they’d be super into Ayton. You might need a 3rd team.

Well, they have been playing Collins as a 4, and Capela basically only dunks. Maybe they think Ayton would be a good 4 next to him like he played in college.

But I assumed they wanted to trade Collins because they don't want to pay him the 25M/year he is asking for. And the Ayton swap only buys them one more year before making a decision.

Collins is the opposite of Ayton. Solid offensively, but we'd have a lot of problems on the defensive end if he was our starting 4 and Saric (?) was our starting 5.

For some reason I'm not impressed with Collins at all. Would rather have Ayton.

I have paid only limited attention to Collins so far. I have seen several highlights of him destroying the rim on dunks and putbacks. Is there a lot more to his game? What else does he do well on offense besides dunk? How is he defensively?

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:24 pm

I have paid only limited attention to Collins so far. I have seen several highlights of him destroying the rim on dunks and putbacks. Is there a lot more to his game? What else does he do well on offense besides dunk? How is he defensively?

He’s a solid 3 point shooter

I just watched a highlight package of Collins and one thing that stood out to me is the speed of decision making. Collins knows what he is, he’s an offensive big man who’s purpose is to score. He catches the ball and immediately attacks. I’m talking mostly on dump offs here. Ayton gets those passes and surveys the scene first. Those split second hesitations from Ayton are key. It allows the defense to regroup.

Honestly Collins is about as opposite of a player as you can get from Ayton.

High motor vs Low motor
PNR big vs low post big
Shooter vs non shooter
Offensive big vs defensive big.

Collins is the better offensive player by a wide margin and he’s just a better fit for our offense. He’s a much bigger lob threat than Ayton on the roll, and he’s also a pretty dangerous pick n pop guy. A crunch time offense of Paul/Booker/Bridges/Cam/Collins has two elite shot creators, an elite roll man, and two great shooters that can also attack a close out. Collins wouldn’t provide the playmaking of a Saric, but he’s a much bigger rim rolling threat. 5 shooters...that would be a really hard offense to stop.

Defense is a different question...I can’t say I’ve watched a lot of Atlanta to know how Collins is there. He’s a decent weak side shot blocker, but he’s also been playing with Capela this year. I’m not sure how he’d hold up as a 5 on defense. Probably not great. So maybe you’ve gotta stick with him at the 4...but then your only 5 on the roster is Saric. Would need to find another big.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:31 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:24 pm

I have paid only limited attention to Collins so far. I have seen several highlights of him destroying the rim on dunks and putbacks. Is there a lot more to his game? What else does he do well on offense besides dunk? How is he defensively?

He’s a solid 3 point shooter

He's a pretty solid modern 4, just a poor defender. The Capela/Collins thing they have going should work well, just don't think that they mesh with that chucker PG.

Oatmeal wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:49 am

I think they'd have to eat Capelas deal too to get Collins. Not saying I wouldn't, because I totally would, just can't see how it fits with Collins needing money and Bridges up soon too.

Capela has a great contract. I don't think Atlanta is looking to move him anyway. Ayton isn't an upgrade.

Collins has take a step back this year and he has a PED suspension. He is a really good player, but with his upcoming free agency, I just don't see him as a smart acquisition.

Vucevic is playing at a superstar level. The defensive concerns don't negate him being a significant upgrade from Ayton.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:06 am

Ya the money makes it tricky. There is no way to do the trade without including one of Cam/Mikal/Jae/Dario for salary purposes...unless you’re doing like a 6 for 1.

Suns get: Nikola Vucevic
Orlando gets: DeAndre Ayton, Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox
New York gets: Gary Clark, Jae Crowder, Jevon Carter

Collins is a great offensive player but quite bad on defense. He isn't a physical presence at the 5, though if he's your 5 his offense would offset the defense a little because he's very athletic, active, and a surprisingly solid three point shooter. But on D, if he were your 4, his lateral speed is not enough to chase around modern 4s, and at the 5 he doesn't protect the paint at all.

I agree that both him and Vucevic are massive offensive upgrades over Ayton, but I still prefer to have some sort of resistance at the rim on the defensive end. We *are* trying to compete for a championship after all. The path to that goes through AD, Jokic, and Embiid.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:09 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:06 am

Ya the money makes it tricky. There is no way to do the trade without including one of Cam/Mikal/Jae/Dario for salary purposes...unless you’re doing like a 6 for 1.

Suns get: Nikola Vucevic
Orlando gets: DeAndre Ayton, Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox
New York gets: Gary Clark, Jae Crowder, Jevon Carter

If Orlando gets Ayton they should move Bamba...

pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:38 pm

Collins is a great offensive player but quite bad on defense. He isn't a physical presence at the 5, though if he's your 5 his offense would offset the defense a little because he's very athletic, active, and a surprisingly solid three point shooter. But on D, if he were your 4, his lateral speed is not enough to chase around modern 4s, and at the 5 he doesn't protect the paint at all.

I agree that both him and Vucevic are massive offensive upgrades over Ayton, but I still prefer to have some sort of resistance at the rim on the defensive end. We *are* trying to compete for a championship after all. The path to that goes through AD, Jokic, and Embiid.

You pretty confident the 76ers are going to beat the Nets?

Fair point. I don't know. When the Nets made that trade I wasn't a huge fan, but I'm coming around. I guess it's just hard for me to trust in a guy like Kyrie to keep it together when things go south. Maybe they're so talented that it never goes south, and I'll eat some crow.

OTOH I also don't want to watch Collins matched up against KD.

Let's say we replace Embiid with Gobert. Also don't want to watch Collins try to contain the pick and roll and stop the lob threat from Conley to Gobert.

Path could quite easily be KP/Ibaka/Gobert/Jeff Green