Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:51 am

The thing folks always underestimate is, every offseason there are a bunch of teams that saved up a bunch of cap space hoping to take a big swing at a free agent. They chase after the top few guys, like a Kawhi or a Davis or whomever is available that year. And they don't get them. So then they're sitting there with $30-40m of cap space and they need something to show for it.

Somebody is going to make a big offer to Bridges. And probably somebody will make a big-ish offer to Ayton.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Superbone » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:54 am

LazarusLong wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:09 am
"The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That was a good one. Don't forget Coach Paul too (the instigator rhymes with nymph).
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Shabazz » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:56 am

I think we extend Bridges for somewhere between in the high $80M range this summer.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by specialsauce » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:02 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:51 am
The thing folks always underestimate is, every offseason there are a bunch of teams that saved up a bunch of cap space hoping to take a big swing at a free agent. They chase after the top few guys, like a Kawhi or a Davis or whomever is available that year. And they don't get them. So then they're sitting there with $30-40m of cap space and they need something to show for it.

Somebody is going to make a big offer to Bridges. And probably somebody will make a big-ish offer to Ayton.
Sure but just because someone offered Steven Adams $25M annually doesn’t mean it was smart. It was terrible then and a worse contract now. I’d be happy to let a team tie themselves to DA for $100M+ and live in mediocrity

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by The Bobster » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:31 pm

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am
If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.
I can't add much to this.
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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:33 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:02 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:51 am
The thing folks always underestimate is, every offseason there are a bunch of teams that saved up a bunch of cap space hoping to take a big swing at a free agent. They chase after the top few guys, like a Kawhi or a Davis or whomever is available that year. And they don't get them. So then they're sitting there with $30-40m of cap space and they need something to show for it.

Somebody is going to make a big offer to Bridges. And probably somebody will make a big-ish offer to Ayton.
Sure but just because someone offered Steven Adams $25M annually doesn’t mean it was smart. It was terrible then and a worse contract now. I’d be happy to let a team tie themselves to DA for $100M+ and live in mediocrity
Yeah but what if DA blossoms and becomes a star after leaving the Suns, just like Oubre, Len, and Bender did?

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by specialsauce » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:38 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:33 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:02 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:51 am
The thing folks always underestimate is, every offseason there are a bunch of teams that saved up a bunch of cap space hoping to take a big swing at a free agent. They chase after the top few guys, like a Kawhi or a Davis or whomever is available that year. And they don't get them. So then they're sitting there with $30-40m of cap space and they need something to show for it.

Somebody is going to make a big offer to Bridges. And probably somebody will make a big-ish offer to Ayton.
Sure but just because someone offered Steven Adams $25M annually doesn’t mean it was smart. It was terrible then and a worse contract now. I’d be happy to let a team tie themselves to DA for $100M+ and live in mediocrity
Yeah but what if DA blossoms and becomes a star after leaving the Suns, just like Oubre, Len, and Bender did?
Hahaha.
Thinking about players that have left the Suns in recent memory, about the only one I can think of that made me regret letting him go is DJJ. We let him go so we could keep Mike James I believe.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Superbone » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:47 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:38 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:33 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:02 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:51 am
The thing folks always underestimate is, every offseason there are a bunch of teams that saved up a bunch of cap space hoping to take a big swing at a free agent. They chase after the top few guys, like a Kawhi or a Davis or whomever is available that year. And they don't get them. So then they're sitting there with $30-40m of cap space and they need something to show for it.

Somebody is going to make a big offer to Bridges. And probably somebody will make a big-ish offer to Ayton.
Sure but just because someone offered Steven Adams $25M annually doesn’t mean it was smart. It was terrible then and a worse contract now. I’d be happy to let a team tie themselves to DA for $100M+ and live in mediocrity
Yeah but what if DA blossoms and becomes a star after leaving the Suns, just like Oubre, Len, and Bender did?
Hahaha.
Thinking about players that have left the Suns in recent memory, about the only one I can think of that made me regret letting him go is DJJ. We let him go so we could keep Mike James I believe.
Ah... How we all pine for the Mike James days...
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Charlie Smithy! » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:13 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:31 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am
If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.
I can't add much to this.
I will say that I feel like in this season in particular, despite the success, that there seems to be an amazing amount of rosterbation.

Which I get it, we're on a message board. But at the same time, and I am just speaking for myself, I feel like for my sanity and to enjoy the season, that I have to step out of all that and into the present moment.

On the other hand, I know that I will never be able to reach Nodack's level (and I truly mean this as a compliment) of simply perceiving it all as entertainment.

I do wonder, on the psychological level, where the different levels of enjoyment are for those fans who are more season-to-season and for those fans who are pretty much constantly forward-thinking.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Superbone » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:19 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:13 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:31 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am
If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.
I can't add much to this.
I will say that I feel like in this season in particular, despite the success, that there seems to be an amazing amount of rosterbation.

Which I get it, we're on a message board. But at the same time, and I am just speaking for myself, I feel like for my sanity and to enjoy the season, that I have to step out of all that and into the present moment.

On the other hand, I know that I will never be able to reach Nodack's level (and I truly mean this as a compliment) of simply perceiving it all as entertainment.

I do wonder, on the psychological level, where the different levels of enjoyment are for those fans who are more season-to-season and for those fans who are pretty much constantly forward-thinking.
Yeah, I'd rather just concentrate on Ayton's failings. ;) But if he ever does get it, and with consistency, watch out!
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by jonh » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:08 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:13 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:31 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am
If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.
I can't add much to this.
I will say that I feel like in this season in particular, despite the success, that there seems to be an amazing amount of rosterbation.

Which I get it, we're on a message board. But at the same time, and I am just speaking for myself, I feel like for my sanity and to enjoy the season, that I have to step out of all that and into the present moment.

On the other hand, I know that I will never be able to reach Nodack's level (and I truly mean this as a compliment) of simply perceiving it all as entertainment.

I do wonder, on the psychological level, where the different levels of enjoyment are for those fans who are more season-to-season and for those fans who are pretty much constantly forward-thinking.
It’s interesting- my perception of this season has been the exact opposite. I feel like there are much fewer threads about trade demands and anger at a player than I remember in past seasons.
“I’m done with not making the playoffs. I’m serious. This is probably the last year I’m ever not making the playoffs.” Devin Booker-- April, 2017

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Shabazz » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:11 pm

Charlie Smithy! wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:13 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:31 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am
If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.
I can't add much to this.
I will say that I feel like in this season in particular, despite the success, that there seems to be an amazing amount of rosterbation.

Which I get it, we're on a message board. But at the same time, and I am just speaking for myself, I feel like for my sanity and to enjoy the season, that I have to step out of all that and into the present moment.

On the other hand, I know that I will never be able to reach Nodack's level (and I truly mean this as a compliment) of simply perceiving it all as entertainment.

I do wonder, on the psychological level, where the different levels of enjoyment are for those fans who are more season-to-season and for those fans who are pretty much constantly forward-thinking.
I was actually just thinking the other day how this is the first year in forever that I don't really care all that much about the trade deadline. I'm really good whether we make a move or not.

Every other year in recent memory, we've basically been out of the playoffs by this point and all I had to look forward to were potential moves to better our future.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Indy » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:32 pm

Same for me, Bazz and John. It doesn't feel at all like we are whining about our team and just trying to find something to get excited about. Now we are nitpicking some things. I think that comes with us being seen as a legit threat to go far in the playoffs. So we are trying to maximize what we have, instead of blowing it all up in hopes for next year. Our window with Paul is SHORT.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:17 pm

I think Chris Paul can play until he's 40. It would be great if he and the Suns renegotiate his contract to a 3 year deal that moves his cap hit from $44M closer to $30M, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that happening.
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Indy » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:15 pm

At this pace, he might be able to get more than that in FA. Taking the 44, and then say he can get a 2 year deal for 20M each year, that would be worth more than taking 30x3.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by BKinSJC » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:01 pm

I think there's a tiny, tiny outside chance that the team makes a significant but non-championship playoff run this year, and Paul agrees to opt out and renegotiate on the condition that Jones and Co. use the available extra money to make an addition that improves the team enough to be on the list of favorites for the following year or two.

This is assuming that Paul *really* believes that he could get over the top and win a championship in Phoenix, and that he trusts the organization (particularly the owner) enough to make those moves rather than just sitting on the money, and that such a move even becomes available. As I say, a confluence of events that would be almost, but not quite, impossible.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:33 pm

Indy wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:15 pm
At this pace, he might be able to get more than that in FA. Taking the 44, and then say he can get a 2 year deal for 20M each year, that would be worth more than taking 30x3.
Actually, that would add to $84, with a risk injury watch all year long, while going 3x30 would net him $90 risk free. Even getting a second contract at 2x $25, do not make the risk worthy for those extra $4 over $90. A clever negotiator would keep the risk topic up front in the talks, to get Paul to decline his option and resign at 3x27.5. A very good negotiator? 4x25 BUT, with the 4th year a team option. Perhaps making the 4th year partially guaranteed at $12 will make everybody happy, but 3x30 would actually be great just for Paul.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:57 pm

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:33 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:15 pm
At this pace, he might be able to get more than that in FA. Taking the 44, and then say he can get a 2 year deal for 20M each year, that would be worth more than taking 30x3.
Actually, that would add to $84, with a risk injury watch all year long, while going 3x30 would net him $90 risk free. Even getting a second contract at 2x $25, do not make the risk worthy for those extra $4 over $90. A clever negotiator would keep the risk topic up front in the talks, to get Paul to decline his option and resign at 3x27.5. A very good negotiator? 4x25 BUT, with the 4th year a team option. Perhaps making the 4th year partially guaranteed at $12 will make everybody happy, but 3x30 would actually be great just for Paul.
The net present value of taking the 44 next year vs deferring 14 of it to the next year makes up for that difference, depending on the return rates Paul can get.

I agree the injury concern is there, though. You just don't see players deferring 14M dollars for a single year very often.

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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:32 am

One year at 5% brings you home $700 grand for your $14mill, around $1.5 after two full years. Players taking all the money in the present they can get it’s more about respect that being financially educated. But hopefully, Chris could see the benefits on not trying to defeat the odds, he is not our average NBA player. Of course, if all that talk about coming here for Book and how great culture he has found here are just lip service, no way he leaves a dime on the table as well as losing control over where he wants to end his career.

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