Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

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Shabazz
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Shabazz » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:33 pm

Indy wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:33 pm
jonh wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:27 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:30 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:12 pm
Here’s where I stand in order of preference:

1. Trade Ayton this season for a win now piece.
2. Trade Ayton this off season for a better system fit.
3. Sign Ayton to a value extension(70 Mil or less over 4)
4. Sign Ayton to a tradable extension(75-80 over 4)
5. Trade Ayton at next years deadline(no extension)
6. Sign and trade Ayton in restricted FA

Then the unacceptable outcomes for me:

• Let Ayton walk for nothing
• Match a max or near max contract
• Give Ayton a bad extension(90+ over 4 years)
I would agree with this. I only want DA back at this point if the deal is a steal for the team (think Saric’s value relative to his compensation)

I don’t want any sizeable amount of cap space or our hopes for the future tied to a player we can only count on to give a shit half the time
That may be where you stand in order of preference, but if I was to rank them in order of probability, I would put option 9 (Give Ayton a bad extension (90+ over 4 years), as the most likely outcome.

Sarver drafted Ayton. Ayton went to Arizona. The team will have no high draft picks the next few years to get high upside players. The team is selling the ceiling and potential of the team, and he has more potential upside than almost anyone else on the roster.
Even though that makes us a tax paying team? Or are you thinking he cites tax costs and lets Bridges walk because he is already paying too much next year?

Or are you saying he let Ayton know he will get his extension, but has to play out the last year of his contract until Paul comes off the books?
If our team is a true contender, then Sarver better pay the damn tax if that’s what it takes to keep it together. He saved enough in the lean years. These are the years to spend. Sometimes you can’t be both great and highly profitable and the sacrifice better come on the profits side.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Indy » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:55 pm

I don't think that is sound banking philosophy there, bazz.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by specialsauce » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:41 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:33 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:33 pm
jonh wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:27 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:30 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:12 pm
Here’s where I stand in order of preference:

1. Trade Ayton this season for a win now piece.
2. Trade Ayton this off season for a better system fit.
3. Sign Ayton to a value extension(70 Mil or less over 4)
4. Sign Ayton to a tradable extension(75-80 over 4)
5. Trade Ayton at next years deadline(no extension)
6. Sign and trade Ayton in restricted FA

Then the unacceptable outcomes for me:

• Let Ayton walk for nothing
• Match a max or near max contract
• Give Ayton a bad extension(90+ over 4 years)
I would agree with this. I only want DA back at this point if the deal is a steal for the team (think Saric’s value relative to his compensation)

I don’t want any sizeable amount of cap space or our hopes for the future tied to a player we can only count on to give a shit half the time
That may be where you stand in order of preference, but if I was to rank them in order of probability, I would put option 9 (Give Ayton a bad extension (90+ over 4 years), as the most likely outcome.

Sarver drafted Ayton. Ayton went to Arizona. The team will have no high draft picks the next few years to get high upside players. The team is selling the ceiling and potential of the team, and he has more potential upside than almost anyone else on the roster.
Even though that makes us a tax paying team? Or are you thinking he cites tax costs and lets Bridges walk because he is already paying too much next year?

Or are you saying he let Ayton know he will get his extension, but has to play out the last year of his contract until Paul comes off the books?
If our team is a true contender, then Sarver better pay the damn tax if that’s what it takes to keep it together. He saved enough in the lean years. These are the years to spend. Sometimes you can’t be both great and highly profitable and the sacrifice better come on the profits side.
Shut up and put a shirt on pervert

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Shabazz
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Shabazz » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:42 pm

Indy wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:55 pm
I don't think that is sound banking philosophy there, bazz.
No. But it’s generally accepted team building philosophy.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Mori Chu » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:02 pm

I bet Ayton will get closer to $100m / 4 years. Or more.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by specialsauce » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:48 pm

Get me J. Allen and Larry Nance for DA and Carter

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Wally_West
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Wally_West » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:50 pm

My hot take is both Mikal and Ayton get locked up to 4/100 contracts this summer.

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Indy » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:05 pm

Wally_West wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:50 pm
My hot take is both Mikal and Ayton get locked up to 4/100 contracts this summer.
I don't think that is a hot take. It wouldn't surprise me as far as the contracts go.

But that would put us at 155M for our payroll, with only 9 guys on the roster. Isn't that 20M over the tax payers threshold? Meaning Sarver pays and extra 20M for funzies?

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ShelC
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by ShelC » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:22 am

Are other execs/owners really going to be throwing 25mil at either Mikal or DA? We waited Oubre out and got him for a 2 yr 30mil deal. In reality, Mikal probably isn't worth more than 12-14mil. Maybe we can get him at 18?

Bigs come at a premium so maybe DA is worth more. I wouldn't suspect many around the league are enamored with him, tho one could make the case he's just not being used right/featured within our offense. I still think we're better with him than without him - a fluid, athletic 7-0 250lb 22 yr old double double big - but wouldn't overpay at all either. Sabonis and Turner each got around 20mil/year, so that's probably a best case. Porzingis got his full max which is 30 and it's hard to believe he'll live up to that.

Maybe the culture thing is real with Jones and Monty and our guys take friendlier deals to keep the band together - DA takes 15, Mikal takes 12, Cam Johnson takes 8 and CP signs 1 year deals at the minimum for the next 3 years.

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carey
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by carey » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:07 am

The reports are already out that Bridges is looking for $20M/yr. I can't find it right now but I remember reading it a few weeks back.
Go Suns!

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by The Bobster » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:24 am

Chris Paul on playing with Deandre Ayton -

"“D.A. is full of personality. If you’re around him, you can’t help but to love him because of his energy and how good of a person he is,” Paul said. “I think myself as well as Jae [Crowder] and ‘Book,’ all of us are showing him what it takes to make it to the next level.

“It is one thing to be a really good player, but when you want to be elite you got to bring it every night. You got to make sure they are talking about you on the scouting report and it’s really, really hard. But I think he is more than capable, and it’s great to be a part of this process with him.”"

https://theundefeated.com/features/dean ... :frontpage
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Ring_Wanted » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:37 am

carey wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:07 am
The reports are already out that Bridges is looking for $20M/yr. I can't find it right now but I remember reading it a few weeks back.
No surprise, and if he is ok with just 20M per, he should be extended asap. If he hits RFA somebody is going to do something actually crazy (remember Otto Porter? yeah...).

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Ring_Wanted » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:50 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:22 am
Are other execs/owners really going to be throwing 25mil at either Mikal or DA? We waited Oubre out and got him for a 2 yr 30mil deal. In reality, Mikal probably isn't worth more than 12-14mil. Maybe we can get him at 18?
I have no doubt either is getting at least 25M if he hits RFA. How else are you getting the other team FO to balk at matching an offer sheet?

Regarding Bridges specifically, players like Hield, FVV, Brogdon or Gary Harris make around 20M. OG Anunoby is at 18M per, and history has cases of high end 3D role players getting much more than that (like Otto Porter, as I said). 18M per would be a huge success for the FO.

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ShelC
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by ShelC » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:10 am

I have no doubt either is getting at least 25M if he hits RFA. How else are you getting the other team FO to balk at matching an offer sheet?
That's just it tho. Another team has to overpay to get those guys. Are they willing to? Is Bridges at 25mil really a gamechanger for anyone? I know all it takes is one offer but I just can't see it happening. Would they play out the final year and hit UFA?

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Ring_Wanted » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:28 am

ShelC wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:10 am
I have no doubt either is getting at least 25M if he hits RFA. How else are you getting the other team FO to balk at matching an offer sheet?
That's just it tho. Another team has to overpay to get those guys. Are they willing to? Is Bridges at 25mil really a gamechanger for anyone? I know all it takes is one offer but I just can't see it happening. Would they play out the final year and hit UFA?
Every summer there are many crazy contracts thrown around for players not as good as Bridges. On the other hand, the number of relevant players that hit UFA after their rookie contract is really low (I can remember only Ben Gordon).

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carey
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by carey » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:57 am

The Bobster wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:24 am
Chris Paul on playing with Deandre Ayton -

"“D.A. is full of personality. If you’re around him, you can’t help but to love him because of his energy and how good of a person he is,” Paul said. “I think myself as well as Jae [Crowder] and ‘Book,’ all of us are showing him what it takes to make it to the next level.

“It is one thing to be a really good player, but when you want to be elite you got to bring it every night. You got to make sure they are talking about you on the scouting report and it’s really, really hard. But I think he is more than capable, and it’s great to be a part of this process with him.”"

https://theundefeated.com/features/dean ... :frontpage
If you have to be on him daily then it's just not going to work. Eventually he'll get tired & tune everyone out. He either needs to internalize it soon or it's a done deal.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by specialsauce » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:59 am

carey wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:57 am
The Bobster wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:24 am
Chris Paul on playing with Deandre Ayton -

"“D.A. is full of personality. If you’re around him, you can’t help but to love him because of his energy and how good of a person he is,” Paul said. “I think myself as well as Jae [Crowder] and ‘Book,’ all of us are showing him what it takes to make it to the next level.

“It is one thing to be a really good player, but when you want to be elite you got to bring it every night. You got to make sure they are talking about you on the scouting report and it’s really, really hard. But I think he is more than capable, and it’s great to be a part of this process with him.”"

https://theundefeated.com/features/dean ... :frontpage
If you have to be on him daily then it's just not going to work. Eventually he'll get tired & tune everyone out. He either needs to internalize it soon or it's a done deal.
That entire article was cringeworthy. More diarrhea coming out of his soft mouth

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am

If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.

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LazarusLong
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by LazarusLong » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:09 am

"The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The Suns finally have the potential to shine again ... 8-)

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Pacers (16-20) @ Suns (25-11), Sat 3/13/21

Post by specialsauce » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:19 am

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:07 am
If think Ayton is the weak link in a otherwise awesome first half of a season.

The first few games, people were running with torches and pitchforks around Grandpa Paul, now we even talk about the window he provide us. Some others were as far a messing with Booker’s personal life in order to criticize his performance, now it’s been a while since the last post about that girl ruining him. We demanded them instant perfection.

So, now that we have an All Star backcourt, we are after the rest of a team that have managed to get the second best record in the league for moments, and even if it goes as a mirage as it could be, truth is they have achieved this much. How many of us would have signed a “not bitching” card in exchange of our current place in the standings?

But no, some people like to talk anything (no wonder why, it’s a message board) but some other HAVE TO keep ranting about something, anything, even if it means to go into things as far as the off-season extensions, because the inseason have us doing good AS A TEAM. As shortsighted as I could sound saying that I prefer to enjoy the moment, after so much years of suffer, it’s not that crazy to do it.

Some people can’t see a Ferrari without complaining about gas mileage, or how cliche the red color is, it’s just the way they are.
Of course, its a message board. What else would we talk about? And if we didn’t have any player to complain about, we’d have the greatest team in the history of sports. Newsflash, sports fans are whiney fickle people. That’s been true since the beginning of time. If you think we’re bad then check out a Philly board or Boston.

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