Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:31 am

Split T wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:23 am
Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:15 am
But James Jones needs to know at what price are you happy to lose him for nothing. That it the key on his end. And the problem of waiting until you are put in that position, is that you are willing to pay more than you want because you have to add the cost of losing him for nothing. That is why you need to be talking to his agent now.
100% agree. For the record, signing him to an extension wouldn’t stop me from trying to trade him. He’d have more trade value if locked into a reasonable deal. But it does lessen the need to trade him. If he’s max or bust, we’ve got to move him before restricted free agency.
exactly

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by BAMF » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:36 am

Split T wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:23 am
Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:15 am
But James Jones needs to know at what price are you happy to lose him for nothing. That it the key on his end. And the problem of waiting until you are put in that position, is that you are willing to pay more than you want because you have to add the cost of losing him for nothing. That is why you need to be talking to his agent now.
100% agree. For the record, signing him to an extension wouldn’t stop me from trying to trade him. He’d have more trade value if locked into a reasonable deal. But it does lessen the need to trade him. If he’s max or bust, we’ve got to move him before restricted free agency.
I'm on this boat.

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:41 am

Thing is, I don’t even want him as my starting center at this point. So are you willing to pay $15M to your backup center? I would rather trade him and get a big with a higher motor and start Dario.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Shabazz » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:48 am

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:41 am
Thing is, I don’t even want him as my starting center at this point. So are you willing to pay $15M to your backup center? I would rather trade him and get a big with a higher motor and start Dario.
Love Dario, but the Dario-Crowder frontcourt is first round fodder.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:08 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:41 am
Thing is, I don’t even want him as my starting center at this point. So are you willing to pay $15M to your backup center? I would rather trade him and get a big with a higher motor and start Dario.
That is your hyperbole bias creeping in. Ayton is better than all but ~15 centers in the game (including Dario!).

If we signed him as a FA with the same deal we signed Crowder or Dario, we would be loving it. But we used our first ever #1 pick on the guy, he was taken before better talent, and he has shown us he is capable of so much more.

Now if we signed him to a 30M/year at 5 year deal, then we would all hate it. But we aren't there (yet).

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:08 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:48 am
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:41 am
Thing is, I don’t even want him as my starting center at this point. So are you willing to pay $15M to your backup center? I would rather trade him and get a big with a higher motor and start Dario.
Love Dario, but the Dario-Crowder frontcourt is first round fodder.
I think that has more to do with Jae.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:09 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:08 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:48 am
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:41 am
Thing is, I don’t even want him as my starting center at this point. So are you willing to pay $15M to your backup center? I would rather trade him and get a big with a higher motor and start Dario.
Love Dario, but the Dario-Crowder frontcourt is first round fodder.
I think that has more to do with Jae.
Dario is not starting-center-on-a-great-team level unless he is your 4th or 5th best starter.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:10 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:08 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:41 am
Thing is, I don’t even want him as my starting center at this point. So are you willing to pay $15M to your backup center? I would rather trade him and get a big with a higher motor and start Dario.
That is your hyperbole bias creeping in. Ayton is better than all but ~15 centers in the game (including Dario!).

If we signed him as a FA with the same deal we signed Crowder or Dario, we would be loving it. But we used our first ever #1 pick on the guy, he was taken before better talent, and he has shown us he is capable of so much more.

Now if we signed him to a 30M/year at 5 year deal, then we would all hate it. But we aren't there (yet).
It’s not. You can’t depend on him to even catch a ball. I can’t have a starting center that can’t reliably catch a pass in the fourth quarter.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:22 pm

You are exaggerating.

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:41 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:22 pm
You are exaggerating.
Okay. Which part of that statement is an exaggeration?

Are you suggesting that DA can reliably catch a pass?

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm

"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Split T » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:53 pm

What if we just told Ayton...you’re gonna play 20-24 minutes a night. 5-6 minute spurts. We just need you to play hard and aggressive for those minutes. Don’t worry about foul trouble or extended minutes without a break. I think we can get some good stuff out of him in that scenario.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by BAMF » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm
"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.
Maybe pursue Andre Drummand if he gets bought out. Doesn't fit perfectly with our style but young 27 (probably will demand some coin though not as much as he is making now) and a good stop gap for the mean time.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:57 pm

Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm
"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.
The objective measures suggest otherwise. We are statistically a better team when Dario is in. Again, the Suns have their worst net rating as a team when DA is on the court compared to any other rotation player.

Your bolded statement is what is subjective.

Your underlined statement is hyperbole and twisting the words.

Larry Nance or Jarrett Allen are not scraps. John Collins is not scraps. I’m not talking about trading him for cash considerations. Id rather get someone who provides rather more value for less money or is more reliable and fits the mentality of the rest of the team better.
Last edited by specialsauce on Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Split T » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:58 pm

BAMF wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm
"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.
Maybe pursue Andre Drummand if he gets bought out. Doesn't fit perfectly with our style but young 27 (probably will demand some coin though not as much as he is making now) and a good stop gap for the mean time.
Problem with that is Drummond tries to do things he can’t. That’s one thing Ayton has going for him, he doesn’t try things he can’t do. He’s even essentially eliminated a lot of his mid range jumpers.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by specialsauce » Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:59 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:58 pm
BAMF wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm
"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.
Maybe pursue Andre Drummand if he gets bought out. Doesn't fit perfectly with our style but young 27 (probably will demand some coin though not as much as he is making now) and a good stop gap for the mean time.
Problem with that is Drummond tries to do things he can’t. That’s one thing Ayton has going for him, he doesn’t try things he can’t do. He’s even essentially eliminated a lot of his mid range jumpers.
Dario would start, Drummond off the bench for 15-20 mpg.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by BAMF » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:00 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:58 pm
BAMF wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm
"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.
Maybe pursue Andre Drummand if he gets bought out. Doesn't fit perfectly with our style but young 27 (probably will demand some coin though not as much as he is making now) and a good stop gap for the mean time.
Problem with that is Drummond tries to do things he can’t. That’s one thing Ayton has going for him, he doesn’t try things he can’t do. He’s even essentially eliminated a lot of his mid range jumpers.
Not sure if I'm on board with this. I like people who try to take their game to another level even when they can't do it. It shows spirit and desire but yes it can hurt you but not as much as not trying at all. Just my opinion.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Split T » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:01 pm

I think I’d rather start Drummond in that scenario...I like Saric better in bench units. I’d still probably give Saric more time and he’d close, but I’d start Drummond.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Split T » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:04 pm

BAMF wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:00 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:58 pm
BAMF wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:54 pm
Indy wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:48 pm
"reliably" is a subjective term. We all wish he had better hands, and had a motor like Jevon Carter, and had the agression of Amare. He doesn't, and likely never will. That doesn't mean we would be better off starting Jae and Dario and trading him for scraps.
Maybe pursue Andre Drummand if he gets bought out. Doesn't fit perfectly with our style but young 27 (probably will demand some coin though not as much as he is making now) and a good stop gap for the mean time.
Problem with that is Drummond tries to do things he can’t. That’s one thing Ayton has going for him, he doesn’t try things he can’t do. He’s even essentially eliminated a lot of his mid range jumpers.
Not sure if I'm on board with this. I like people who try to take their game to another level even when they can't do it. It shows spirit and desire but yes it can hurt you but not as much as not trying at all. Just my opinion.
Sure, I agree, but Drummond is one extreme and Ayton is the other. Need to find somewhere in the middle. I know historically he’s been better, but how is a 7’0 athletic freak shooting 47% from the field? Doesn’t make sense and he’s never been an efficient offensive player.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:06 pm

I love Dario on this team. BUT. There is a reason Dario is not, and has never been, a starting center on a good team.

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