Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by pickle » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:56 pm

Delon Wright was just traded to the Kings for Joseph and two seconds.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Ring_Wanted » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:32 am

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:37 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:49 pm
In the past we'd have long discussions about guys like Bagley and Gordon because the roster was such a mangled collection of assets who didn't really play well together.

Now the Suns have a nearly perfect roster with clearly defined roles, so it's essentially pointless to really consider any mid-season trade for a significant young player.

I don't see any obvious way they can get better via trade this week. Everything would involve a pretty significant risk of disturbing the form and chemistry of the roster they have now. The ball movement has been good for most of the season, but it's been incredible these last two games. I don't see how that gets worse without enduring injuries.
Suns don't have the moveable parts. I'm not married to Crowder, but the Suns likely are; I don't think Jones can afford to burn that bridge.

I still wish we could something about the 4 spot and possibly a plan C at the 5.

I still like moving Carter for Muscala.
They should have kept Kaminsky's 5M for this exact purpose. Smith, Carter, Kaminsky (at 5M), Nader and Moore would have enabled PHX to take 20M in a trade. Good enough to get say Jerami Grant or Aaron Gordon, for instance.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:20 am

INFORMER wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:37 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:49 pm
In the past we'd have long discussions about guys like Bagley and Gordon because the roster was such a mangled collection of assets who didn't really play well together.

Now the Suns have a nearly perfect roster with clearly defined roles, so it's essentially pointless to really consider any mid-season trade for a significant young player.

I don't see any obvious way they can get better via trade this week. Everything would involve a pretty significant risk of disturbing the form and chemistry of the roster they have now. The ball movement has been good for most of the season, but it's been incredible these last two games. I don't see how that gets worse without enduring injuries.
Suns don't have the moveable parts. I'm not married to Crowder, but the Suns likely are; I don't think Jones can afford to burn that bridge.

I still wish we could something about the 4 spot and possibly a plan C at the 5.

I still like moving Carter for Muscala.
They'd only consider trading Crowder in a deal for an All-Star level player, someone clearly better than Bridges.

They're also not trading Carter for another guy who barely cracks the rotation. Carter's best quality is that he knows his role and I think he'll have his moment in an important game. (hopefully it's a good moment)

So the that just leaves trying to get a 3rd guy to play the 5. I think Moore would be who I'd try to attach to some second round picks, but that's not going to interest any other GMs.
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The Bobster
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by The Bobster » Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:57 am

To discourage the fouling in the backcourt they could just go back to what they used to have the "backcourt foul" where the player fouled got to shoot "three to make two"

The drawback is that it hinders playing aggressive fullcourt defense.

The other thing to consider is two free throws to a player fouled while shooting a three-point shot. It's more in line with the expected outcome of a 3-point attempt than three free throw attempts.

I'm also open to the ideas of elimination of the charging foul in the lane or changing the size of the lane.
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:35 am

pickle wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:19 pm
Indy wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:00 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:43 pm
Just one reason why I have been supportive of some of the things Split and Cap said. I want the court to be 10' wider (maybe longer too), and make the 3 pointer 25' and a full semi-circle so corners are not closer. It even gives a little more room on the corners between the 3 and out of bounds.

Make the paint smaller (or trapezoidal).

Go back to what used to be allowed for continuation.

Punish intentional fouls to prevent fast breaks (not just clear path).

If you want to get crazy to encourage more mid-range (and more spectacular dunks/plays at the rim):

Make the paint a trapezoid, use the 3 zones where you have 1s, 2s and 3s. You shoot the ball from the paint, 1 point. If you shoot from outside the paint but before 25', 2 points. >25'=3 points. FTs follow the same rule.

Get rid of the charge in the paint. You want to block the ball, block it. But none of this stand in the lane and fall down when a guy gets close enough to make it look like he bowled you over.
What about making the key back into a key? They enlarged it to diminish the value of the post up player, but if you can establish post position and stay there much closer to the hoop, maybe the back to the basket behemoth can make a comeback. Tacko vs. Boban anyone?
Agreed about making the paint smaller like it used to be.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:51 am

I agree that block/charge foul calls are rough. But if you eliminate the charge, how do you stop offensive players from plowing through the defender?

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Split T » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:02 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:51 am
I agree that block/charge foul calls are rough. But if you eliminate the charge, how do you stop offensive players from plowing through the defender?
Not sure how you word it in the rule book, but should be a way to get rid of the just slide and stand in front of a guy attacking the rim foul, without eliminating the offensive player seeking out contact, lowering shoulder into defender, etc. fouls.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:36 am

If you are in the lane/paint and not making a play on the ball, you are not in a legal guarding position. I guess you could word it so that when someone is backing down a defender, that is a legal position, though. This "I stood there with my arms down to my side and he ran me over" stuff is not defense.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:14 pm

Indy wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:36 am
If you are in the lane/paint and not making a play on the ball, you are not in a legal guarding position. I guess you could word it so that when someone is backing down a defender, that is a legal position, though. This "I stood there with my arms down to my side and he ran me over" stuff is not defense.
The other side of this is that if you eliminate the charge, then if you're on defense and just minding your business standing still, an offensive player can just plow into you and it's your fault. Is that better?

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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Split T » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:20 pm

Just don’t call it anything. If the offensive player stupidly runs into a guy just standing there, just call nothing.
Split: I would trade DA for SGA right now(11-24-2020)

Cap: I wouldn’t. Somebody remember to check this post in five years and see which of us looks the fool.

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:30 pm

exactly. play on.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:47 pm

But I don't want it to be the case that you can just plow into defenders as much as you like. I worry that it would lead to a bunch of guys playing like 2006 Finals Wade.

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:50 pm

I'll take that over the incessant flopping going on today.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:43 pm

Here is what every play will be: (side note, i LOVE this gif, it cracks me up every time)

Image

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Indy » Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:56 pm

Today that would be called a blocking foul and be an And 1.

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SunsRIt
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by SunsRIt » Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:35 pm

I think all fouls should be reviewed by a side judge and flopping result in a technical.

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by INFORMER » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:02 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:20 am
Carter's best quality is that he knows his role and I think he'll have his moment in an important game. (hopefully it's a good moment)
You can find guys at the veteran minimum that can do that. The Suns actually have four of them already. You don't need to keep Carter around at nearly $4 mil a year.

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INFORMER
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by INFORMER » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:04 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:32 am
They should have kept Kaminsky's 5M for this exact purpose. Smith, Carter, Kaminsky (at 5M), Nader and Moore would have enabled PHX to take 20M in a trade.
This is also where Paul's $40 million a year really hurts. The Suns only have $7 million in space below the L-Tax threshold. They really don't have a lot of flexibility.

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pickle
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by pickle » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:10 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:57 am
To discourage the fouling in the backcourt they could just go back to what they used to have the "backcourt foul" where the player fouled got to shoot "three to make two"

The drawback is that it hinders playing aggressive fullcourt defense.

The other thing to consider is two free throws to a player fouled while shooting a three-point shot. It's more in line with the expected outcome of a 3-point attempt than three free throw attempts.

I'm also open to the ideas of elimination of the charging foul in the lane or changing the size of the lane.
I think the trouble with that is, in close end of game situations, team will always foul instead of allow a three. Dame time will no longer be a thing... Maybe allow 3 shots in last 2 minutes of each quarter?

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Around the League: Week 13 3/15-3/21

Post by Ring_Wanted » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:53 am

INFORMER wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:04 pm
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:32 am
They should have kept Kaminsky's 5M for this exact purpose. Smith, Carter, Kaminsky (at 5M), Nader and Moore would have enabled PHX to take 20M in a trade.
This is also where Paul's $40 million a year really hurts. The Suns only have $7 million in space below the L-Tax threshold. They really don't have a lot of flexibility.
Of course, but he is delivering and the team is performing beyond expectations. In that regard, I'd consider an agreement next summer where Paul opts out and takes something like 25M per for 4 years. For the player this means securing almost 60M extra and it provides the team with flexibility to keep spending.

Anyway, the smart approach was to have as much salary under the tax as possible in case some opportunity was there (imagine, for instance, adding Jerami Grant using the contracts I mentioned plus whatever draft capital was needed). We don't pay too much attention to this now because the team is winning and we finally can afford to think in the present, but this is a latent issue for sure. Sarver opted for saving money, we lack disposable salary mass and finding ways to improve the team is going to be tough.

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