Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by INFORMER » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:38 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:10 pm
Torrey Craig isn't half bad.
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:28 pm
I thought Craig had a rough game. He chucked up several shots that bricked hard off the rim. Probably shouldn't take open shots just yet; better to swing the ball around or drive. Would rather have seen Kaminsky or Cam Johnson get more minutes instead.
Interesting.

I'll say this: it doesn't help to have guys pass up open shots.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by INFORMER » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:45 am

bajanguy008 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:39 am
Might seem like a crazy take especially to those who had to peep the box score or catch highlights but I thought Cam J had an awesome game

Luv to see it 😊
His box score was actually really good. Getting 7/5/3 (efficient shooting) in 19 minutes is a really good night from one of your perimeter role players.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by INFORMER » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:48 am

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:28 pm
Raptors have a good starting 5 and about 7 guys I would be happy to go to war with. But they lack some size and they don't have a lot of deadeye shooters outside of VanVleet. They're small enough that even a guy like Ayton can bully them. Sad that a team that won the title so recently is such a shell of its former self.
I hate that Norman Powell trade for them more and more as time passes. Just pay the guy, and let Lowry walk.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by bajanguy008 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:58 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:45 am
bajanguy008 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:39 am
Might seem like a crazy take especially to those who had to peep the box score or catch highlights but I thought Cam J had an awesome game

Luv to see it 😊
His box score was actually really good. Getting 7/5/3 (efficient shooting) in 19 minutes is a really good night from one of your perimeter role players.
Yes some might say so but it's still common for multiple 3s to be the key stat fans focus on and I probably sound like a broken record trying to highlight other facets of his game.
Shel mentioned it, his reads (cuts and passes) were very good and he doesn't get picked on (on D like last year), manages to stay in front and use his length more often than not
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by JeremyG » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:44 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:32 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:55 pm
Ayton also had a nice post-hook right when he came in for Dario, but they didn't even try to get him the ball again afterwards.
Ayton's shortcomings this season are primarily on him, but sometimes I wonder if we have constructed a team/system that marginalizes him more than it maximizes his ability. Monty and Paul say the right things in terms of pushing Ayton, but I don't feel that the way Paul plays or the way Monty schemes actually puts Ayton in the best position to thrive.
It’s like he’s more of an afterthought. He’s shooting a career high FG% and a career low in FG attempts.

If they would make it a part of the game plan to go to him multiple possessions in a row at a time and let him get in a rhythm (ala Shaquille O’Neal), he would be averaging well over 20 ppg and nobody would be talking about his lack of aggression.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Mori Chu » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:47 am

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:48 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:28 pm
Raptors have a good starting 5 and about 7 guys I would be happy to go to war with. But they lack some size and they don't have a lot of deadeye shooters outside of VanVleet. They're small enough that even a guy like Ayton can bully them. Sad that a team that won the title so recently is such a shell of its former self.
I hate that Norman Powell trade for them more and more as time passes. Just pay the guy, and let Lowry walk.
Yeah it seems weird that a "small" market team like that wouldn't just want to keep a talented young guy they've groomed themselves. I think he'll be worth the money. I have trouble seeing what their plan is to turn their current roster into a contender.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Split T » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:52 pm

They got Trent, who’s younger and also talented. They’ll have to pay him as well, but I guess they feel better about that.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by INFORMER » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:53 pm

JeremyG wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:44 am
If they would make it a part of the game plan to go to him multiple possessions in a row at a time and let him get in a rhythm (ala Shaquille O’Neal), he would be averaging well over 20 ppg and nobody would be talking about his lack of aggression.
Well I don't know about that. Getting him the touches is only half the battle; Ayton has to capitalize on the opportunities, and he has struggled with that this season.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Mori Chu » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:16 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:53 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:44 am
If they would make it a part of the game plan to go to him multiple possessions in a row at a time and let him get in a rhythm (ala Shaquille O’Neal), he would be averaging well over 20 ppg and nobody would be talking about his lack of aggression.
Well I don't know about that. Getting him the touches is only half the battle; Ayton has to capitalize on the opportunities, and he has struggled with that this season.
I'm as big an Ayton defender as anybody, but I completely agree with this. Some of his challenges come from how he's used, but he beats a lot of responsibility, too. He often bobbles the ball when it's passed to him. He isn't always good at getting solod paint position on offense. He doesn't have a reliable jumper, yet he also doesn't really have a dominant post game. On defense, he has a lot of trouble when switched onto a guard on the perimeter. He also seems to lose focus and get out of position on longer possessions or when his man doesn't have the ball. There's a lot that he needs to work on.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by pickle » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:41 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:28 pm
Nice game for Ayton. All of our Big 3 played pretty well tonight. Book's shooting was a bit off, but he still made some big shots.

I thought Craig had a rough game. He chucked up several shots that bricked hard off the rim. Probably shouldn't take open shots just yet; better to swing the ball around or drive. Would rather have seen Kaminsky or Cam Johnson get more minutes instead.

Raptors have a good starting 5 and about 7 guys I would be happy to go to war with. But they lack some size and they don't have a lot of deadeye shooters outside of VanVleet. They're small enough that even a guy like Ayton can bully them. Sad that a team that won the title so recently is such a shell of its former self.
I honestly think the Raptors are doing okay. They did lose 4 key guys from that championship team, and are still considered one of the more likely playoff teams in the East. If the Suns somehow won a championship but had to claw to become a 500 team in 2 years but with a relatively clean cap sheet and four solid young players on the team, I'd be thrilled.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by pickle » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:43 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:16 pm
INFORMER wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:53 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:44 am
If they would make it a part of the game plan to go to him multiple possessions in a row at a time and let him get in a rhythm (ala Shaquille O’Neal), he would be averaging well over 20 ppg and nobody would be talking about his lack of aggression.
Well I don't know about that. Getting him the touches is only half the battle; Ayton has to capitalize on the opportunities, and he has struggled with that this season.
I'm as big an Ayton defender as anybody, but I completely agree with this. Some of his challenges come from how he's used, but he beats a lot of responsibility, too. He often bobbles the ball when it's passed to him. He isn't always good at getting solod paint position on offense. He doesn't have a reliable jumper, yet he also doesn't really have a dominant post game. On defense, he has a lot of trouble when switched onto a guard on the perimeter. He also seems to lose focus and get out of position on longer possessions or when his man doesn't have the ball. There's a lot that he needs to work on.
I think the trouble is that we don't really give him a chance to make an impact later on in the game. I've noticed that the team makes a significant effort to involve him early but I've rarely seen similar activity drawn up for him after the half. I think Ayton can develop a reasonable post game, I've been impressed with his post hooks, but this is a guard driven league and unless we have plenty of time on the clock, giving him 5-8 seconds to establish position and get the pass in (sometimes twice) so he has secure footing puts the offensive position at risk.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Split T » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:50 pm

Ayton needs something that can keep him involved offensively that isn’t his post game. I’m all for giving it to him when he gets great position(we run that set play after almost every jump ball it seems to get a mismatch), but like pickle said, trying to get him the ball wastes a lot of time and if he’s not in great position, he’s just gonna pass it out anyways. Him being a major threat in the pick n roll seems like the most likely option and he’s flashed that ability. Being able to shoot, create, or attack from the perimeter or at least the elbow would be a welcome sight as well.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:54 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:50 pm
Ayton needs something that can keep him involved offensively that isn’t his post game. I’m all for giving it to him when he gets great position(we run that set play after almost every jump ball it seems to get a mismatch), but like pickle said, trying to get him the ball wastes a lot of time and if he’s not in great position, he’s just gonna pass it out anyways. Him being a major threat in the pick n roll seems like the most likely option and he’s flashed that ability. Being able to shoot, create, or attack from the perimeter or at least the elbow would be a welcome sight as well.
This has been some of our biggest worries about him all season. He just doesn't know how to think basketball at the level of his teammates.

Everything would change for him if he could read the PnR defense.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Split T » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:02 pm

I don’t even care that much if he misses most of the shots, but seeing him fake a dho and attack the basket off the dribble even once a game would be great. I know we’re not a developing team, but that ability could go a long ways towards making Ayton a higher impact player.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by pickle » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:30 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:02 pm
I don’t even care that much if he misses most of the shots, but seeing him fake a dho and attack the basket off the dribble even once a game would be great. I know we’re not a developing team, but that ability could go a long ways towards making Ayton a higher impact player.
Right there with you. It's time he tries to put the ball on the floor. Mikal developed that this year. Hopefully Ayton can add that to his game this summer.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Shabazz » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:44 pm

Didn't get to comment during the game, but the thing that bothered me about crunch-time in this one was not the fact that Booker went iso, it was that we kept running screen action with Anunoby's defender to match him up against OG instead of Trent Jr. Huh?

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Split T » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:04 pm

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:44 pm
Didn't get to comment during the game, but the thing that bothered me about crunch-time in this one was not the fact that Booker went iso, it was that we kept running screen action with Anunoby's defender to match him up against OG instead of Trent Jr. Huh?
I’ve never understood why teams screen when they’ve got a mismatch...it’s an auto switch. Do offenses not have sets for a switching D that’s not iso?
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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by INFORMER » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:26 pm

Screening has become so automatic, I wonder if anyone remembers when every possession didn't have to have the ballhandler receiving a screen.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by Shabazz » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:10 pm

Split T wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:04 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:44 pm
Didn't get to comment during the game, but the thing that bothered me about crunch-time in this one was not the fact that Booker went iso, it was that we kept running screen action with Anunoby's defender to match him up against OG instead of Trent Jr. Huh?
I’ve never understood why teams screen when they’ve got a mismatch...it’s an auto switch. Do offenses not have sets for a switching D that’s not iso?
OG is a beast and a tough matchup for Book. And they kept running it with predictable results.

It would be like the Raptors screening Booker so they could match up with Mikal.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (29-14) @ Raptors (18-26), Fri 3/26/21

Post by pickle » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:03 am

A bit like that Denver end of game 4 on 1... sometimes it's just second nature kicking in for these guys I guess...

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