Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
Online
User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 12599
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:17 am

Wally_West wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:35 am
I thought the joke was great, lol. I thought it was decent opportunity to use that Sarver pic tho :lol:
LOL, that Sarver react was perfect. I love that he still uses a flip phone in 2021.

Online
User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 12599
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Mori Chu » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 am

specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:07 pm
Might be the worst trade in history.
It's funny that James Harden has now been involved in two super-lopsided trades. When OKC sent him packing, they got a really crappy haul, headlined by the underwhelming Kevin Martin. Oof. They did get the pick that became Steven Adams, I guess.

This post got me wondering, what *are* considered the worst/best trades in NBA history? I think our own trade to acquire Barkley in 1992 was high on the list; we fleeced Philly. Other doozies:

* 1956: St Louis trades Bill Russell to Celtics
* 1968: Philly trades Wilt Chamberlain to Lakers
* 1975: Bucks trade Kareem to Lakers
* 1980: Warriors trade Robert Parish and #3 pick (Kevin McHale) to Celtics (OOF)
* 1982: Cavs trade their 1st-round pick (James Worthy) to Lakers
* 1987: Sonics trade Scottie Pippen to Bulls for Olden Polynice (draft rights)
* 2012: OKC trades James Harden to Rockets
* 2012: Brooklyn trades all the picks EVER for KG, Paul Pierce

https://clutchpoints.com/the-10-worst-t ... ry-ranked/

I think maybe that 1980 Warriors/Celtics trade turned out the worst. The Ws gave the Celtics two enormous frontcourt pieces and set them up for an '80s dynasty. The Brooklyn pick dumps were also horrendous.

What lopsided trades did I miss? I almost included a few like the Memphis/LAL Gasol trade, but I left that one out because Marc Gasol turned into a franchise guy for the Grizzlies. It was still a lopsided trade at the time, but I think the result turned out well for them and so you can't list it as one of the worst trades ever.

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 20691
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Superbone » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:48 am

Wally_West wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:35 am
I thought the joke was great, lol. I thought it was decent opportunity to use that Sarver pic tho :lol:
My reaction was the same as Saucy's and Bea's.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 5010
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Ring_Wanted » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:52 pm

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 am
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:07 pm
Might be the worst trade in history.
It's funny that James Harden has now been involved in two super-lopsided trades. When OKC sent him packing, they got a really crappy haul, headlined by the underwhelming Kevin Martin. Oof. They did get the pick that became Steven Adams, I guess.

This post got me wondering, what *are* considered the worst/best trades in NBA history? I think our own trade to acquire Barkley in 1992 was high on the list; we fleeced Philly. Other doozies:

* 1956: St Louis trades Bill Russell to Celtics
* 1968: Philly trades Wilt Chamberlain to Lakers
* 1975: Bucks trade Kareem to Lakers
* 1980: Warriors trade Robert Parish and #3 pick (Kevin McHale) to Celtics (OOF)
* 1982: Cavs trade their 1st-round pick (James Worthy) to Lakers
* 1987: Sonics trade Scottie Pippen to Bulls for Olden Polynice (draft rights)
* 2012: OKC trades James Harden to Rockets
* 2012: Brooklyn trades all the picks EVER for KG, Paul Pierce

https://clutchpoints.com/the-10-worst-t ... ry-ranked/

I think maybe that 1980 Warriors/Celtics trade turned out the worst. The Ws gave the Celtics two enormous frontcourt pieces and set them up for an '80s dynasty. The Brooklyn pick dumps were also horrendous.

What lopsided trades did I miss? I almost included a few like the Memphis/LAL Gasol trade, but I left that one out because Marc Gasol turned into a franchise guy for the Grizzlies. It was still a lopsided trade at the time, but I think the result turned out well for them and so you can't list it as one of the worst trades ever.
Moses Malone to PHI, Barkley to PHX as you point out, Doncic to DAL, Ben Wallace to DET (since Hill basically spent his ORL years injuried and even almost died), VC to NJ, Kidd to NJ, Webber to SAC, Paul to LAC, KG to BOS, Ray Allen to SEA. Since we are counting players for pick that turn out huge, Kawhi to SAS, Tatum to BOS.

User avatar
BKinSJC
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:36 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by BKinSJC » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:21 pm

Dennis Johnson to Boston.

User avatar
specialsauce
Posts: 5207
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:45 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by specialsauce » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:29 pm

God you guys are old with some of these references.

User avatar
The Bobster
Posts: 4678
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by The Bobster » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:54 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:52 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 am
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:07 pm
Might be the worst trade in history.
It's funny that James Harden has now been involved in two super-lopsided trades. When OKC sent him packing, they got a really crappy haul, headlined by the underwhelming Kevin Martin. Oof. They did get the pick that became Steven Adams, I guess.

This post got me wondering, what *are* considered the worst/best trades in NBA history? I think our own trade to acquire Barkley in 1992 was high on the list; we fleeced Philly. Other doozies:

* 1956: St Louis trades Bill Russell to Celtics
* 1968: Philly trades Wilt Chamberlain to Lakers
* 1975: Bucks trade Kareem to Lakers
* 1980: Warriors trade Robert Parish and #3 pick (Kevin McHale) to Celtics (OOF)
* 1982: Cavs trade their 1st-round pick (James Worthy) to Lakers
* 1987: Sonics trade Scottie Pippen to Bulls for Olden Polynice (draft rights)
* 2012: OKC trades James Harden to Rockets
* 2012: Brooklyn trades all the picks EVER for KG, Paul Pierce

https://clutchpoints.com/the-10-worst-t ... ry-ranked/

I think maybe that 1980 Warriors/Celtics trade turned out the worst. The Ws gave the Celtics two enormous frontcourt pieces and set them up for an '80s dynasty. The Brooklyn pick dumps were also horrendous.

What lopsided trades did I miss? I almost included a few like the Memphis/LAL Gasol trade, but I left that one out because Marc Gasol turned into a franchise guy for the Grizzlies. It was still a lopsided trade at the time, but I think the result turned out well for them and so you can't list it as one of the worst trades ever.
Moses Malone to PHI, Barkley to PHX as you point out, Doncic to DAL, Ben Wallace to DET (since Hill basically spent his ORL years injuried and even almost died), VC to NJ, Kidd to NJ, Webber to SAC, Paul to LAC, KG to BOS, Ray Allen to SEA. Since we are counting players for pick that turn out huge, Kawhi to SAS, Tatum to BOS.
Moses was signing with Philadelphia as a FA, so that trade was made to get something in return. In 1976 Portland trading Moses to Buffalo for a #1 and Buffalo trading him to Houston shortly afterwards for a couple of #1s certainly would qualify though.

Russell to Boston wasn't as terrible as everyone thinks. I doubt he wanted to play in the most Southern NBA city (St. Louis) and the Hawks did get two players for their championship team - Hagan and Macauley - who both made the Hall of Fame.

Let's not forget that in 1978 the Clippers traded a 1984 #1`to Philadelphia for Lloyd Free. That pick turned out to be Charles Barkley.

And there have been countless players drafted by one team and immediately traded to another (Pippen, Chris Webber, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Stephon Marbury, Antonio McDyess, Pau Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Dirk Nowitzki come to mind). So is that bad draft draft evaluation or bad trading, or both?
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

User avatar
The Bobster
Posts: 4678
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by The Bobster » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:03 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:29 pm
God you guys are old with some of these references.
Yep, some of us guys are old.

Anyway, the Suns made a string of (sometimes) lopsided deals in their early years -

1969 - Gary Gregor to Atlanta for Paul Silas - Advantage: Suns
1972 - Paul Silas to Boston for Charlie Scott - Advantage: Celtics
1975 - Charlie Scott to Boston for Paul Westphal - Advantage: Suns
1980 - Paul Westphal to Seattle for Dennis Johnson - Advantage: Suns
1983 - Dennis Johnson to Boston for Rick Robey - Advantage: Celtics

An interesting note - Gary Gregor was the true original Sun. The 1968 NBA draft came before the Expansion Draft, so Gregor was the first player they acquired the rights to. He's also the first to sign a contract with the Suns. (But in a way it's still okay to call Dick Van Arsdale "The Original Sun" - he was the last of the 1968-69 Suns to play for the team)
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 13333
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Indy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:05 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:54 pm
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:52 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 am
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:07 pm
Might be the worst trade in history.
It's funny that James Harden has now been involved in two super-lopsided trades. When OKC sent him packing, they got a really crappy haul, headlined by the underwhelming Kevin Martin. Oof. They did get the pick that became Steven Adams, I guess.

This post got me wondering, what *are* considered the worst/best trades in NBA history? I think our own trade to acquire Barkley in 1992 was high on the list; we fleeced Philly. Other doozies:

* 1956: St Louis trades Bill Russell to Celtics
* 1968: Philly trades Wilt Chamberlain to Lakers
* 1975: Bucks trade Kareem to Lakers
* 1980: Warriors trade Robert Parish and #3 pick (Kevin McHale) to Celtics (OOF)
* 1982: Cavs trade their 1st-round pick (James Worthy) to Lakers
* 1987: Sonics trade Scottie Pippen to Bulls for Olden Polynice (draft rights)
* 2012: OKC trades James Harden to Rockets
* 2012: Brooklyn trades all the picks EVER for KG, Paul Pierce

https://clutchpoints.com/the-10-worst-t ... ry-ranked/

I think maybe that 1980 Warriors/Celtics trade turned out the worst. The Ws gave the Celtics two enormous frontcourt pieces and set them up for an '80s dynasty. The Brooklyn pick dumps were also horrendous.

What lopsided trades did I miss? I almost included a few like the Memphis/LAL Gasol trade, but I left that one out because Marc Gasol turned into a franchise guy for the Grizzlies. It was still a lopsided trade at the time, but I think the result turned out well for them and so you can't list it as one of the worst trades ever.
Moses Malone to PHI, Barkley to PHX as you point out, Doncic to DAL, Ben Wallace to DET (since Hill basically spent his ORL years injuried and even almost died), VC to NJ, Kidd to NJ, Webber to SAC, Paul to LAC, KG to BOS, Ray Allen to SEA. Since we are counting players for pick that turn out huge, Kawhi to SAS, Tatum to BOS.
Moses was signing with Philadelphia as a FA, so that trade was made to get something in return. In 1976 Portland trading Moses to Buffalo for a #1 and Buffalo trading him to Houston shortly afterwards for a couple of #1s certainly would qualify though.

Russell to Boston wasn't as terrible as everyone thinks. I doubt he wanted to play in the most Southern NBA city (St. Louis) and the Hawks did get two players for their championship team - Hagan and Macauley - who both made the Hall of Fame.

Let's not forget that in 1978 the Clippers traded a 1984 #1`to Philadelphia for Lloyd Free. That pick turned out to be Charles Barkley.

And there have been countless players drafted by one team and immediately traded to another (Pippen, Chris Webber, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Stephon Marbury, Antonio McDyess, Pau Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Dirk Nowitzki come to mind). So is that bad draft draft evaluation or bad trading, or both?
Weren't at least a couple of those guys that told their team they wouldn't play there? In that case, it might be bad ownership forcing your hand to make the deal (like the Moses sign and trade you mentioned).

User avatar
The Bobster
Posts: 4678
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by The Bobster » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:16 pm

The rookies who refused to sign and demanded a trade that I remember are Joe Bryant, Byron Scott, Kiki Vandeweghe, Antione Carr, Danny Ferry, Jayson Williams, Billy Owens, Jon Barry, Don MacLean and Steve Francis.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 20691
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Superbone » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:33 pm

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 20691
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Superbone » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:36 pm

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

User avatar
Flagrant Fowl
Posts: 4425
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:40 pm

That's like a participation trophy statistic to me. Congratulations, you were absolutely terrible last season and now you're good.

No one will remember if you don't make it to at least the conference finals.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 13333
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Indy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:53 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:16 pm
The rookies who refused to sign and demanded a trade that I remember are Joe Bryant, Byron Scott, Kiki Vandeweghe, Antione Carr, Danny Ferry, Jayson Williams, Billy Owens, Jon Barry, Don MacLean and Steve Francis.
I was thinking less of "refused to sign" and more "please don't draft me as I want to pick my team." I could swear that was worked out with Kobe before Charlotte drafted him.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 13333
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Indy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:55 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:40 pm
That's like a participation trophy statistic to me. Congratulations, you were absolutely terrible last season and now you're good.

No one will remember if you don't make it to at least the conference finals.
It is really weird to see two teams that are right around .500 at the top of the chart, and another team that was nearly .500 last year at the very top.

User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 5010
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by Ring_Wanted » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:14 am

Thanks for the lesson Bob!

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 6550
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by INFORMER » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:03 pm

In2ition wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 am
How the heck is Mitchell ahead of Booker?
Better resume.

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 6550
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns News: Week 15 3/29-4/4

Post by INFORMER » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:12 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm

Ben Simmons is the only player on that list that can’t be a first or second option on a team. He will hamstring your salary cap and if he is a max player on a team then I GuaranRasheed Wallace you that you’re bound to get bounced out of the playoffs every single year.

If you can’t score, you can’t be top player. Just can’t. Different era.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Except it's not that Simmons can't score; he just doesn't score. He has a nice post game, and he can really attack the basket, but he is too content to be a wallflower.

I was thinking about this with last night's Sixers/Pelicans game. The Sixers get the L, and Simmons goes for 10 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 steals, 6 turnovers. That is a Draymond Green territory, not franchise player. It's going to be really tough to compete for a championship with him as your second best player.

Post Reply