Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Mori Chu » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:59 am

djy2j wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:48 am
Weird game for Ayton IMO. Like when I was watching him he looked like he was hustling more than I'm used to seeing. I felt he was doing good things on offense. He make some stellar defensive plays but his stats were pretty shitty. But 10 points and 4 rebounds aint shit so I don't really know how to evaluate his performance.

Hopefully James recognizes that we need some more size out there and snags another rebounder. Take Frank's spot.
I thought ShelC had a good point that Ayton's numbers were misleading. As he said, Chicago went out of their way to pull Ayton away from the basket and threw tons of big men out there to deny Ayton rebounding opportunities. I thought Ayton played pretty great defense on Vuc for most of the game. Ayton also had 1-2 nice plays down the stretch on both ends of the floor to help us seal the win: he forced Vuc into a turnover, and finished a layup at the other end. Ayton has some empty stats games, but last night was the opposite, a game where his numbers were modest but didn't tell the whole story of the impact he had.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by The Bobster » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:06 pm

The team rebounding was just atrocious last night, and we got a good look at what it's like if Ayton doesn't have a strong rebounding game.

Johnson and Bridges have to step up.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by JeremyG » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:18 pm

I keep saying we need a rebounding PF. Ayton is our only good rebounder and that may not cut it in the playoffs.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:15 pm

It is really hurting that Cam Johnson has been a shell of himself for quite a while. And it isn't just covid. I think he his is sophomore slump.

And Monty isn't playing him nearly as much. In the first half (~20 games) he played over 25 minutes 11 times. And over 30 minutes 6 times.

In his last 20 games, he only played >=25 mins 3 times. And over 30, once.

His shooting percentages haven't changed much (and actually got a bit better). But it does feel like his defense has regressed.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:46 pm

I can see a scenario where Cam is traded in the offseason for a veteran player that can start at the PF spot next to Ayton. I wouldn't advocate for such a deal if the Suns weren't on the verge of making a Finals run, but next season might be their last big shot at it with Paul playing at this level.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:40 pm

You think there are some veteran PFs that would be a great fit for this team making <5M? Or are you thinking we bundle?

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Superbone » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:53 pm

Ah... I can finally take you seriously again, 'Bazz.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:39 pm

Indy wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:40 pm
You think there are some veteran PFs that would be a great fit for this team making <5M? Or are you thinking we bundle?
It would have to be a bundle for almost anyone since Cam is on a rookie salary and someone like Larry Nance or Bob Covington are in the $10-12M range.

Or they could move Cam in a package to free up space for a free agent signing. Carmelo, Jeff Green, Paul Millsap could be targets. Otto Porter, Rudy Gay, Doug McDermott as well. Maybe that would allow them to add a veteran while also picking up a future asset.

They could make an effort to sign an expensive guy like Markkanen or Collins. Obviously either of them would require a lot of cap space and probably trading Saric or Crowder.

My point is that Cam will probably have significant value on the market for teams who are willing to wait for him to become more consistent, and the Suns may feel the pressure of trying to win now. As much as I've been on the "trade Ayton before you have to pay him" train, I think the Suns have much more patience for him than Cam.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by The Bobster » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm

You lost me at "Carmelo"
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:29 pm

Oh, no. How dare I suggest the Suns might add a guy you don't approve of.

Carmelo and Cam have objectively been pretty much the same this season, but I'd be more comfortable with Carmelo on the court in crunch time right now.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by The Bobster » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:38 pm

Carmelo is a name player, sure, but he's well past his prime and basically has a negative affect on his team now. He's a scorer who can't do it with any efficiency and he doesn't do anything else. The last year he was even "good" was probably 2015-16. There's a reason the Knicks, Thunder and Rockets all dumped him. If we're looking for defense and rebounding at PF he's probably the last guy we should be interested in.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Shabazz » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:54 pm

Superbone wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:53 pm
Ah... I can finally take you seriously again, 'Bazz.
I made another one where it’s Bob Sarver in the Brian Fantana role. Wasn’t sure which would be better.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Indy » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:21 pm

what is that from bazz?

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Shabazz » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:42 pm

Anchorman. Washing the stink off after Sex Panther.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by specialsauce » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:56 pm

I’m not trading Cam J for a one year rental of any of those washed veterans. That would be grounds to immediately fire JJ

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by virtual9mm » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:12 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:56 pm
I’m not trading Cam J for a one year rental of any of those washed veterans. That would be grounds to immediately fire JJ
A-men.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:33 pm

I understand people wanting to like "their guys", but championship organizations don't let their feelings get in the way of winning.

Here's the reality. The Suns aren't going to win the title this year. But they're going to learn a lot about the guys they have, mainly how they perform when it really matters in the playoffs. If any of the young guys (Mikal, Ayton, Cam) obviously disappear in those moments, James Jones wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't consider trying to upgrade the player in their role to someone more reliable and experienced.

Obviously this is just conjecture because we don't know how those guys will perform in two months. What I am certain of is the title window for this team lead by Paul and Booker is narrow. If it requires losing a young player to really put the Suns in the title discussion next season, then it must be done.

What I'm describing is exactly what Denver did at the trade deadline. They loved RJ Hampton, and he'll probably be pretty good someday, but they had to make that move now before Porter Jr. signs his next contract. They were in the same spot as the Suns two weeks ago, but now they're second in the West behind the Lakers in my mind because they acquired a more reliable player.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by INFORMER » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:50 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:39 pm
As much as I've been on the "trade Ayton before you have to pay him" train, I think the Suns have much more patience for him than Cam.
James Jones drafted James Jones and is unhappy that he is playing like James Jones?!

The Suns will have to be careful with moving Johnson. You don't know what kind of impact that is going to have on Bridges. If they do trade Johnson, they better hold off on extending Bridges (unless he agrees to a ridiculously reasonable contract).

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by INFORMER » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:59 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:33 pm
I understand people wanting to like "their guys", but championship organizations don't let their feelings get in the way of winning.

Here's the reality. The Suns aren't going to win the title this year. But they're going to learn a lot about the guys they have, mainly how they perform when it really matters in the playoffs. If any of the young guys (Mikal, Ayton, Cam) obviously disappear in those moments, James Jones wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't consider trying to upgrade the player in their role to someone more reliable and experienced.

Obviously this is just conjecture because we don't know how those guys will perform in two months. What I am certain of is the title window for this team lead by Paul and Booker is narrow. If it requires losing a young player to really put the Suns in the title discussion next season, then it must be done.

What I'm describing is exactly what Denver did at the trade deadline. They loved RJ Hampton, and he'll probably be pretty good someday, but they had to make that move now before Porter Jr. signs his next contract. They were in the same spot as the Suns two weeks ago, but now they're second in the West behind the Lakers in my mind because they acquired a more reliable player.
Good post.

We'll see how committed Jones is to pursuing a championship. All of his talk aside, him and Sarver may be content to just field a winning team. Chemistry is great, but how important is everyone being buddies if you are losing in the 2nd round?

I was higher on this team's potential to win this year a few months ago, and while I wouldn't close the door completely, I do have a lot of doubt about this group's ability to get it done. Ayton's play is too lackluster, no matter how much we want to bend over backwards to put a shine on a 10 point/4 rebound performance. And we just don't have the personnel we need at the 4 spot. I think those two things will be pretty hard to overcome, especially with the moves Denver has made.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-26) @ Suns (32-14), Wed 3/31/21

Post by INFORMER » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:00 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:46 pm
I can see a scenario where Cam is traded in the offseason for a veteran player that can start at the PF spot next to Ayton.
PJ Washington? ;)

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