The 2021 Suns Offseason

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:26 pm
I think KAT is fine defensively. Ayton is better, but it's not like KAT is a stiff or incompetent.
There were 35 centers that started at least 30 games last year. KAT was 29th on that list in the NBA's defensive rating (yeah I know there aren't great advanced stats for defense). You could say last year was a fluke because of covid, and I guess the same for 2019-20. But go back to 2018-19 and he is in the same place.

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Mori Chu
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Mori Chu »

KAT would be a good return for Ayton if we have to trade him. And my opinion is that we'll end up needing to trade him now after all this contract mess. I think I like Ayton better for this team and would prefer to keep him, but KAT is a very good NBA center.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Indy wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:42 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:26 pm
I think KAT is fine defensively. Ayton is better, but it's not like KAT is a stiff or incompetent.
There were 35 centers that started at least 30 games last year. KAT was 29th on that list in the NBA's defensive rating (yeah I know there aren't great advanced stats for defense). You could say last year was a fluke because of covid, and I guess the same for 2019-20. But go back to 2018-19 and he is in the same place.
Can't dispute the numbers, but I have a good feeling about KAT this year. I think he's primed to put together his best season yet, on both ends of the court.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:01 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:42 pm
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:26 pm
I think KAT is fine defensively. Ayton is better, but it's not like KAT is a stiff or incompetent.
There were 35 centers that started at least 30 games last year. KAT was 29th on that list in the NBA's defensive rating (yeah I know there aren't great advanced stats for defense). You could say last year was a fluke because of covid, and I guess the same for 2019-20. But go back to 2018-19 and he is in the same place.
Can't dispute the numbers, but I have a good feeling about KAT this year. I think he's primed to put together his best season yet, on both ends of the court.
He better, I traded down in the fantasy draft to pick him

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The Bobster
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by The Bobster »

FFS, could we at least wait for a sign that this is a long term issue before we decide to start tearing down a team that made it to the Finals last year?

So many Chicken Littles around here.
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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

The Bobster wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:36 pm
FFS, could we at least wait for a sign that this is a long term issue before we decide to start tearing down a team that made it to the Finals last year?

So many Chicken Littles around here.
I’d consider Ayton for KAT an upgrade, so not a tear down by any means.

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The Bobster
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by The Bobster »

Split T wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:41 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:36 pm
FFS, could we at least wait for a sign that this is a long term issue before we decide to start tearing down a team that made it to the Finals last year?

So many Chicken Littles around here.
I’d consider Ayton for KAT an upgrade, so not a tear down by any means.
If you want to go back to high-scoring no -defending underachievers in the postseason, sure
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

The Bobster wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:46 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:41 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:36 pm
FFS, could we at least wait for a sign that this is a long term issue before we decide to start tearing down a team that made it to the Finals last year?

So many Chicken Littles around here.
I’d consider Ayton for KAT an upgrade, so not a tear down by any means.
If you want to go back to high-scoring no -defending underachievers in the postseason, sure
That is my concern, too. But that is also the model of the Nets, and they are widely considered the favorites.

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pickle
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by pickle »

But they also considered Blake a Giannis stopper. I am still not over this dead horse, sorry. But the refs call the games in a certain way and a team like the Nets have so many things over the Suns that they can expect favoritism, whereas we can't.

Also, Saric's defense was mostly against second stringers... I don't think we can underestimate DA's impact on that side of the court.

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ShelC
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

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Suns_Dave
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Suns_Dave »

Landry is saying all the right things. I feel he can do more than he showed in Brookly or LAC. In preseason, he appeared to fit seamlessly into our sets and our culture. Hope it carries over into the games that count.

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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by BlaCkAdDa »

Kat for Ayton

Just NO

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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

It blows my mind people wouldn’t trade Ayton for KAT…KAT is a another level of player. Already a top 5 offensive big in nba history. I know people have concerns defensively, but the offense would be so good it wouldn’t matter. Our offense is already pretty elite, imagine adding a 40% volume 3pt shooting C to it? Not to mention a C that can create his own shot from the perimeter or from the post. A C that would absolutely feast if teams tried to go small on him. We’d have a Nets level offense and our defense would still be better.

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ShelC
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by ShelC »

I think KAT fits the overall profile/identity of the team better than DA, and that's not to say DA is a bad fit in any way. I'd leave it up to Monty and Jones to decide what kind of defender KAT is and would be in our system. Book's taken on the challenge and succeeded IMO, so KAT shouldn't be seen as a lost cause.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Not a lost cause, and I am not saying that we wouldn't thrive with him here. I just have concerns considering we have already had historic offenses here in Phoenix, and it got us nowhere.

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iLLmatic
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by iLLmatic »

Would love to see KAT with our coaching staff and system. I bet they could get him to buy into playing defense.

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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by bajanguy008 »

Again, sounding like a broken record here lol but I not thinking about any hypothetical moves for KAT

What I would add though is that his devastating experience with Covid is still fresh on my mind and I am rooting for him to be an absolute stud this year. If that aligns with any future plans for us well as is always the case I would give my two cents if I actually seeing him in our gear but until then.....
I even saw this yesterday



Don't know if he's still in a dark place or what to even make of this tbh :? :shock: . Seems a tad random but yea good luck to him
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

DA for KAT? Lol. We've already seen that what we have works. We were two wins away from the championship. Why would you want to change from a defensive identity with a defensive-minded center to what failed for 50 years (offensive-minded teams)?

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pickle
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by pickle »

I think we all need to take a slight step back in this whole discussion.

DA didn't get extended and some frustration was voiced, and we are all reacting. But before we discuss who to swap DA for, there's still a very significant chance that this whole thing just blows over when the winning starts and CP3 and Book get into DA's ear. In fact, as I see it, there are several possible scenarios:

a. DA plays angry, with aggression, and proves that he's worth a full max.
a1. We sign him to the 5 year full max at the end of the season, all is forgiven, everybody kisses and makes up.
a2. DA signs an offer sheet, and we match it, but we control him for 3 years only and he's gone earlier rather than later.
a3. DA takes the QO to spite us.

b. DA is simply angry and pouts and chemistry is disrupted and the locker room breaks down and we are forced to consider moving him.

c. DA plays half heartedly and the league collectively decides he's not worth a max and he either signs via matching or directly with the Suns on a subpar contract, and he continues to half-ass it for the remainder of his Suns tenure.

If we get to scenario b, I would say we've utterly failed. There is so much coverage that there's little chance things can be kept under wraps and we'll likely have to take pennies on the dollar to move DA, in which case we aren't getting KAT. I would say scenario a3 is extremely unlikely, because as many pundits have said, given the amount of player power in the modern day, someone can sign the full max extension and *then* force his way out, and the team would most likely have to comply anyway, so there's simply no point in taking that chance. If we get to scenario c, I think that's where I'd get most disappointed because we might have ruined a fragile young psyche, but from what I've seen of his interviews and on court behavior I don't think that's the kind of player he is.

If we get either a1 or a2, we are still in an okay place and can try to win in that window before truly panicking. Once we get there, then we can debate whether we want to trade for KAT two years down the line. Pretty sure the Wolves want to see what's on their hands with Russell and Ant playing alongside KAT full time too. Not like the offer's already on the table.

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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

pickle wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:24 pm
I think we all need to take a slight step back in this whole discussion.

DA didn't get extended and some frustration was voiced, and we are all reacting. But before we discuss who to swap DA for, there's still a very significant chance that this whole thing just blows over when the winning starts and CP3 and Book get into DA's ear. In fact, as I see it, there are several possible scenarios:

a. DA plays angry, with aggression, and proves that he's worth a full max.
a1. We sign him to the 5 year full max at the end of the season, all is forgiven, everybody kisses and makes up.
a2. DA signs an offer sheet, and we match it, but we control him for 3 years only and he's gone earlier rather than later.
a3. DA takes the QO to spite us.

b. DA is simply angry and pouts and chemistry is disrupted and the locker room breaks down and we are forced to consider moving him.

c. DA plays half heartedly and the league collectively decides he's not worth a max and he either signs via matching or directly with the Suns on a subpar contract, and he continues to half-ass it for the remainder of his Suns tenure.

If we get to scenario b, I would say we've utterly failed. There is so much coverage that there's little chance things can be kept under wraps and we'll likely have to take pennies on the dollar to move DA, in which case we aren't getting KAT. I would say scenario a3 is extremely unlikely, because as many pundits have said, given the amount of player power in the modern day, someone can sign the full max extension and *then* force his way out, and the team would most likely have to comply anyway, so there's simply no point in taking that chance. If we get to scenario c, I think that's where I'd get most disappointed because we might have ruined a fragile young psyche, but from what I've seen of his interviews and on court behavior I don't think that's the kind of player he is.

If we get either a1 or a2, we are still in an okay place and can try to win in that window before truly panicking. Once we get there, then we can debate whether we want to trade for KAT two years down the line. Pretty sure the Wolves want to see what's on their hands with Russell and Ant playing alongside KAT full time too. Not like the offer's already on the table.
I think you left out the most likely scenario, which is history simply repeating itself:

a4. DA forces his way out this summer, and at best we end up with some mediocre assets in a S&T.

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