The 2021 Suns Offseason

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:20 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:16 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:12 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:37 pm


I think you're right. I bet they only gave Shamet the money once they couldn't make a deal with Ayton, because they are now planning on letting him go.
there is no way in hell they are letting him go. They may trade him, but they are not letting him go for nothing.
I'm not interested in letting Ayton go for S&T garbage.
No one is, not even James Jones, so don't worry.
If he wants out, Jones won't make him stay.
One thing I know about Jones is no one knows what he’s going to do.

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:22 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:20 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:16 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:12 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm


there is no way in hell they are letting him go. They may trade him, but they are not letting him go for nothing.
I'm not interested in letting Ayton go for S&T garbage.
No one is, not even James Jones, so don't worry.
If he wants out, Jones won't make him stay.
One thing I know about Jones is no one knows what he’s going to do.
That may be true, but he's very big on team chemistry. He's likely not going to keep an unhappy player around.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

MightyMoog
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by MightyMoog »

No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Shabazz
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Shabazz »

JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm
MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
What offensive skills? I mean, he's a good finisher around the basket and his mid-range has improved, but he's got very limited creation skills beyond the turnaround.
Targets: KD, Schroder, Micic, Favors, Kemba, Bembry, Paschall, Watanabe, Avdija, Keita BD, K. Hayes, J. Isaac, Jalen Johnson, K. Lewis, Maledon, Metu, Olynyk, Quickley, P. Reed, JRE, J Vanderbilt, Aaron Wiggins

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

I hope DA understands that he's not on the same level as Doncic and Young who's max contracts were indisputable. It doesn't matter that he was drafted ahead of them.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm
MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
And win less games, and not go as far in the playoffs. He just isn't built to be an alpha player. He is an outstanding 3rd or 4th guy on your team.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Shabazz wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:38 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm
MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
What offensive skills? I mean, he's a good finisher around the basket and his mid-range has improved, but he's got very limited creation skills beyond the turnaround.
Haven't you heard him talk? We are just holding him back.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Book didn't even get the max max.

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:40 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm
MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
And win less games, and not go as far in the playoffs. He just isn't built to be an alpha player. He is an outstanding 3rd or 4th guy on your team.
You don't have to be a #1 option to be an All-Star.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Fair. And I am not doubting he can get to be an all-star. I would like the Suns to re-sign him. I just wouldn't feel comfortable offering him a 207M contract after a wonderful 20 game stretch.

MightyMoog
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by MightyMoog »

JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm
MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
Sorry, I disagree. If he were to go to another team he’d only look worse than he does. Whereas if Luka was on this team he’d have an MVP trophy to his name already. I like Ayton, I’m happy that he’s not a complete bust, I hope that he proves us wrong, keeps improving and becomes deserving of that max contract. But if he’s going to be insulted that he hasn’t gotten one yet, then he’ll never be deserving of one.

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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »


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AmareIsGod
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by AmareIsGod »

MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:11 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm
MightyMoog wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
No one is disrespecting Ayton. The worst you can do as a team is hand out a bad contract. Some teams can withstand it, but small market teams can’t. Just look at Minnesota and Sacto. Look at us with Bledsoe and Knight. Mikal and Landry took a little less for some security now. If Ayton wants the max max then he can wait, what incentive is there for the team to agree to do that now? This isn’t about whether you spend the money or not, but more on how they spend the money. Ayton isn’t the best player on this team, he shouldn’t be making the most. Denver will regret the Porter contract, OKC had to pay someone or they’d be paying the other teams. Luka and Trae are the only ones deserving the max as they’ve already been all stars. If you hand out a max contract, we’d better be damn certain he’s going to be an all star. As great as he was, are any of you confident in that?
Yes, I am confident he will be an All-Star once he leaves Phoenix and goes to a team that will actually utilize his offensive skills.
Sorry, I disagree. If he were to go to another team he’d only look worse than he does. Whereas if Luka was on this team he’d have an MVP trophy to his name already. I like Ayton, I’m happy that he’s not a complete bust, I hope that he proves us wrong, keeps improving and becomes deserving of that max contract. But if he’s going to be insulted that he hasn’t gotten one yet, then he’ll never be deserving of one.
When you've got your own teammates (Chris Paul) and other players, current and former, saying "he's going to get paid the max! Going to get a bag!" and hyping him up all season long, yeah, he's going to feel insulted. People take the human element out of it all the time.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Chris said "get a bag" and never said "paid the max"

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:14 pm
Wow. Even better!

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AmareIsGod
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by AmareIsGod »

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:18 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:14 pm
Wow. Even better!
I can't say I'm too unhappy with this, though I'd like to actually see what he can do on the court for a stretch with this team before extending him.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:18 pm
Chris said "get a bag" and never said "paid the max"
Unfortunately, it sounds to me that Ayton is obsessed with getting paid the max and the max only. He's not interested in getting paid commensurately with his value. He's repeatedly said he doesn't like his role. I really don't think he wants to be a center. He'd prefer to be a PF. But not a PF that is aggressive taking the ball to the hoop. That just doesn't jive.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:20 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:16 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:12 pm
Indy wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:37 pm


I think you're right. I bet they only gave Shamet the money once they couldn't make a deal with Ayton, because they are now planning on letting him go.
there is no way in hell they are letting him go. They may trade him, but they are not letting him go for nothing.
I'm not interested in letting Ayton go for S&T garbage.
No one is, not even James Jones, so don't worry.
If he wants out, Jones won't make him stay.
And as long as Jones gets a fair to great haul out of it, we will be fine.

Kid is not going to take the QO route, he is too fixated on his "second contract" to risk it, no wonder he is so disappointed about it. So, using the tools RFA provides, we can get the Kid his second contract and a the same time improve the team, so let´s S&T his greedy ass to Minnesota and call it a good day. And if he can't deliver KAT on a S&T, that another sign of his true value. He fits really well on his current role, but if he goes delusional about his own value and role, what the team is going to do about it? You can't save a man from himself.

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

What is this supposed "second contract fixation"?

All I remember seeing is one quote from right after he was drafted, before he even played in the NBA.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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