The 2021 Suns Offseason

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

Cap wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:07 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:48 pm
Rudy Gobert was the 3rd best C last year, I wouldn’t pay the super duper max for that….
But the Jazz would, and do.
They do and I fully expect them to struggle to remain competitive in the coming years. They are a very expensive and aging team. Rudy making 40+ million a year will be a major hindrance to team building I think. They’re basically locked in to never having cap space and most likely paying the luxury tax, just to keep a bunch of mid 30’s guys around their core of Rudy/Mitchell. I guess their one chance is if Mitchell ascends to another tier and becomes an mvp level player.
Thad Young please

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:32 pm
JeremyG wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:13 pm
Here's another interesting article: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2021 ... -you-think

However, it is wrong about SGA not having escalators, according to Woj:



So all 4 players (Doncic, Young, SGA, MPJ) have the supermax or potential supermax (30% of 2022 cap) based only on reaching an All-NBA team. This is the fair market value for Ayton.

Hollinger's "Expected Extension Value" (EEV) for Ayton is 5 years, $194 million.
The difference is the pathway to all-nba is much easier for Ayton. SGA and MPJ are not making all-nba unless they make a huge leap and in SGA’s case, OKC would need to be much better.
Much easier? There are twice as many All-NBA forwards and guards as centers. Fair is fair. Just give him his market value and don't screw this up.

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Indy
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:01 pm
Here's an article that goes into the dangers of not coming to a deal with Ayton, and what has happened in the past with other teams/players: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/brea ... -the-suns/

...

I don't agree with this assessment from the article, though:
Clint Capela and Myles Turner are both making less than $20 million this season, and they were meaningfully better regular-season players than Ayton last year.
Turner was a "meaningfully better" player, just because he piled up a bunch of blocked shots, when he averaged 12.6 ppg and 6.5 rpg on .477 FG% in more mpg than DA? That's crazy.
Regular Season Miles Turner > Regular Season DA last year. But DA was awesome in the playoffs. I hope we get that player back this season.

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ShelC
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

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Nice. That's a significant muscle weight gain.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

And congrats to the Mercury making the Finals in the same year as the Suns. Great time to be a basketball fan in the Valley.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

Five Suns (4 former and 1 current) among the top 75 all-time NBA players

https://arizonarepublic-az-app.newsmemo ... 3b_1345f65

In order:

Shaq
Barkley
Kidd
Nash
Paul
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:58 pm
Five Suns (4 former and 1 current) among the top 75 all-time NBA players

https://arizonarepublic-az-app.newsmemo ... 3b_1345f65

In order:

Shaq
Barkley
Kidd
Nash
Paul
That's just USA Today's picks. The official list has not been released yet.

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

JeremyG wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:01 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:58 pm
Five Suns (4 former and 1 current) among the top 75 all-time NBA players

https://arizonarepublic-az-app.newsmemo ... 3b_1345f65

In order:

Shaq
Barkley
Kidd
Nash
Paul
That's just USA Today's picks. The official list has not been released yet.
Good point. I didn't realize that.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Mori Chu
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Mori Chu »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:58 pm
Five Suns (4 former and 1 current) among the top 75 all-time NBA players

https://arizonarepublic-az-app.newsmemo ... 3b_1345f65

In order:

Shaq
Barkley
Kidd
Nash
Paul
All those guys except arguably Shaq had important years/runs in Phoenix, too. Even Shaq was an All-Star for us one year.

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

Yeah, I fully expect the first four to make the official list. I just hope they include Paul as well. I'm sure if he had won Finals MVP that would have guaranteed it.

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Split T
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Split T »

Paul will for sure be in the top 75. He better be at least. He’s a top 30 guy to me…though I understand his lack of ultimate success holds him back a bit. But no question I’d have him above a guy like Stockton. I’d put Paul above Nash, honestly there are really only 2 PG's that are definitely ahead of him imo(Magic and Curry). I don’t know how to rank Oscar, but he’s probably ahead of Paul historically too.
Thad Young please

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Superbone
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Superbone »

Split T wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:28 pm
Paul will for sure be in the top 75. He better be at least. He’s a top 30 guy to me…though I understand his lack of ultimate success holds him back a bit. But no question I’d have him above a guy like Stockton. I’d put Paul above Nash, honestly there are really only 2 PG's that are definitely ahead of him imo(Magic and Curry). I don’t know how to rank Oscar, but he’s probably ahead of Paul historically too.
Agreed. No way he's not in it. He's top five all-time in assists and steals for god's sake.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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The Bobster
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by The Bobster »

Magic

Curry
Oscar

Paul
Stockton
Nash

Cousy
Kidd
Isiah
Payton
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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LazarusLong
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by LazarusLong »

The Bobster wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:35 pm
Magic

Curry
Oscar

Paul
Stockton
Nash

Cousy
Kidd
Isiah
Payton
That's a fairly solid take, Bobs.
I might squeeze Walt Frazier into that last tier.

Robertson was an evolutionary guard -- most primary ballhandlers of that era were about 6' or so.
Robertson was as big as many forwards.
When Kareem (then Lew) came to the Bucks, Oscar was describing a tight pick-n-roll move.
Kareem thought it wouldn't work ... the passing window was too small.
"just be there, and catch the damn ball ..."
Kareem did as he was directed, and Oscar delivered.
Kareem never doubted the Big "O" again...
The Suns finally have the potential to shine again ... 8-)

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The Bobster
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by The Bobster »

LL - It's hard to pigeonhole Jerry West and Walt Frazier as point guards or shooting guards, but if you consider them point guards -

Magic

Curry
Oscar
West

Paul
Stockton
Nash

Frazier
Cousy
Kidd
Isiah
Payton
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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LazarusLong
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by LazarusLong »

West had the ball in his hands at clutch time, for sure. And was the point early in his career.
Archie Clark, Johnny Egan and Gail Goodrich each acted as point guards in their stays at LA.

Clyde ran the offense most of the time until the Knicks got Monroe, at which time it was a collaborative approach.
Pearl and Clyde made up one of the best backcourts ever ...
The Suns finally have the potential to shine again ... 8-)

JeremyG
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by JeremyG »

I don't like that they're deleting people from the 50 Greatest Players list. The younger people voting on the Top 75 will probably skew it towards recent players. I feel like they should just be adding 25 players to the old list.

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Charlie Smithy!
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by Charlie Smithy! »

It still blows my mind that Dominique Wilkins wasn't voted one of the 50 greatest

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The Bobster
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Re: The 2021 Suns Offseason

Post by The Bobster »

JeremyG wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:40 pm
I don't like that they're deleting people from the 50 Greatest Players list. The younger people voting on the Top 75 will probably skew it towards recent players. I feel like they should just be adding 25 players to the old list.
There are probably some players on the 50 greatest list that shouldn't have been there, and some were left off (like Joe Fulks and Bob Davies from the 25th anniversary team, who were both long-dead so who's gonna miss them?). Maravich and Worthy are two I probably wouldn't have put on the 50 greatest list.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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