Around the League: Off-season

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I'm comparing the combined production of two viable Centers to Ayton's production in the playoffs.
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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Indy »

Um, Ayton was great throughout most of the playoffs. But he didn't win us Game 2. He wasn't dominating, especially in the 4th. What won us the game was Book and Mikal scoring 19 points in the 4th, while keeping Middleton to only 2 (even though Giannis and Jrue went off).

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:26 pm
Um, Ayton was great throughout most of the playoffs. But he didn't win us Game 2. He wasn't dominating, especially in the 4th. What won us the game was Book and Mikal scoring 19 points in the 4th, while keeping Middleton to only 2 (even though Giannis and Jrue went off).
Well I guess we watched an entirely different game then.

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Indy »

The Bucks scored 30 points in the 4th. Nobody scoring more than Giannis in the 4th on over 80% shooting. The only shot he missed was a 3. Ayton wasn't slowing them down.

And the whole pep talk from Monty to Ayton that you referenced was because Ayton was having a really shitty game and being ineffective.

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by JeremyG »

He was struggling yes. Then he went out and dominated with force in the 4th quarter like Monty told him to do.

It was 93-88 Suns with 8 1/2 minutes left when Ayton took over and dominated on both ends for multiple possessions in a row, and the Bucks never got that close again:
08:30
88 - 95 Ayton 1' Cutting Layup Shot (8 PTS) (Paul 5 AST)

08:05 MISS Holiday 2' Driving Layup [This was essentially a block by Ayton]

08:03 Ayton REBOUND (Off:3 Def:5)

07:49 88 - 98 Booker 25' 3PT Jump Shot (28 PTS) (Ayton 3 AST) [And great screen by Ayton]

07:41 Bucks Timeout: Regular (Reg.5 Short 0)

07:35 Ayton STEAL (2 STL)

07:18 88 - 101 Booker 26' 3PT Jump Shot (31 PTS) (Paul 6 AST) [Following the Ayton steal]

07:05 90 - 101 Middleton 16' Step Back Jump Shot (11 PTS)

06:47 90 - 103 Ayton Alley Oop Layup (10 PTS) (Paul 7 AST)

https://www.nba.com/game/mil-vs-phx-004 ... ?period=Q4
And just like that it was a 13-point lead.

Then, after it was cut to 6 again, we have:
05:42 Ayton STEAL (3 STL)
[...]
04:13 Ayton REBOUND (Off:4 Def:5) [Huge offensive rebound and assist by Ayton after Booker missed 3]
04:10 97 - 106 Paul 3PT Jump Shot (23 PTS) (Ayton 4 AST)
03:59 MISS Middleton 4' Driving Layup
03:59 Ayton BLOCK (2 BLK)
[...]
02:10 Ayton REBOUND (Off:4 Def:6)
01:08 Ayton REBOUND (Off:4 Def:7)

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Indy
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Indy »

How about this--We wouldn't have won Game 2 with Enes Kanter playing center for us. :)

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Superbone »

Cap wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:17 pm
Money talks…
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Mori Chu »

Unless you're Ben Simmons.

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Indy »

I think it is still talking to him. He knows that if he stays in Philly, his career earnings are going down. He wants to show what he can do when he is put in a good situation for him (I'm not saying Philly didn't try that, just what I think Ben--and his agent--are thinking).

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:20 pm
Unless you're Ben Simmons.
I'm not aware of the CBA minutia, but I'm certain he'll get his money when ever he shows up for a team.

I think the Sixers are withholding something like $8M right now, and I doubt Simmons so dumb that he'd just forfeit it because his feelings are hurt.
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Split T »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:42 pm
Mori Chu wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:20 pm
Unless you're Ben Simmons.
I'm not aware of the CBA minutia, but I'm certain he'll get his money when ever he shows up for a team.

I think the Sixers are withholding something like $8M right now, and I doubt Simmons so dumb that he'd just forfeit it because his feelings are hurt.
I think they can essentially fine him his game check for every game he sits out, but we haven’t gotten that far yet. We’ll see how committed he is to this holdout when the regular season starts. I’d guess he’ll at least show up and say he’s hurt.
Thad Young please

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Mori Chu »

I heard on the Zach Lowe podcast that they put Simmons's money into an escrow account, and if he misses practices or games or whatever, they permanently deduct the salary from the account. So we'll see.

The Ringer did a writeup of the top contending teams this season. Here's the link:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/10/4 ... kers-bucks

Gotta say, I think a lot of folks are overrating the Lakers. Lebron is getting old, AD has had problems staying healthy, Westbrook isn't a good shooter and isn't a great fit with Lebron (they both need the ball). And they gave up some of their depth to get those guys together. I don't think they have very good shooters or wing depth at all. They signed a bunch of bantha fodder centers like DeAndre Jordan (barf) who don't play well next to AD anyway; AD should be a 5 full-time. They let Shroeder go, who was an absolute pest to us in the playoffs, and they overpaid Horton-Tucker, who seems like nothing special to me, just an energy guy. I just don't like their roster construction at all. If they were younger I would have more faith that they'd figure it out, but I think with the old versions of Lebron and Westbrook the Lakers are not a real contender. There, I said it.

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Mori Chu »

Another team I think folks are wildly overrating: The Warriors. I love Steph, but the rest of the roster is very questionable. Klay Thompson won't be back for opening night and is hopeful to play by around Christmas. I doubt he'll be at 100% for most of the season. Draymond Green has become a horrible shooter, basically a Dennis Rodman type, which baffles me; he used to be able to hit 3s at a serviceable clip, but I guess he's given up on practicing them or something. Their stud young player, Wiseman, tore his meniscus and will be out. Their starting center is the steady but boring Kevon Looney. I like that they re-signed Iguodala, but he's getting a bit long in the tooth. Wiggins is empty calories, a guy who will get you some points on a bad team but not a guy you want to start and depend on for a good team. They have some other decent pieces like Otto Porter, Jordan Poole, Langston Galloway, and I think they're going to be a frisky playoff team in the 5-8 range, but I don't think all of it adds up to a contender.

The fact that most publications are listing the Warriors ahead of our Suns in their title favorite rankings is an absolute travesty. GTFO of here with that BS.

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Indy »

Green only had one season where he hit 3s at a rate above league average, and 6 seasons far below average. He isn't a shooter and that one year was a fluke.

I agree that I don't think the Lakers will be a great team. I do think they will do better in the playoffs than the regular season, though. So I think they are a legit threat (and maybe a favorite) if they enter the playoffs healthy.

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Split T »

Who is listing the Warriors above the Suns? I haven’t paid close attention, but I don’t recall seeing that much.

With the Warriors I think it’s about their ceiling. I don’t really care what they do in the first 2/3rds of the season. We’ll know what they are in March when Klay is fully healthy and they are gearing up for the playoffs. I think they can be a very dangerous team. Seed wise they probably aren’t looking at a top 3/4 seed, but not a team I want to face in round 1 at all.
Thad Young please

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Mori Chu
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Mori Chu »

Indy wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:56 am
I agree that I don't think the Lakers will be a great team. I do think they will do better in the playoffs than the regular season, though. So I think they are a legit threat (and maybe a favorite) if they enter the playoffs healthy.
IMO the best plan for the Lakers would be:

- Let Russ go wild in the regular season, let him play 40 minutes or whatever he wants, let him hog the ball, save Lebron and AD's legs a bit. Rest Lebron for 10-15 games, rest him on back-to-backs. Put AD at a mix of the 4/5 to save some wear and tear on his body.

- In the playoffs, do exactly the opposite. Have Lebron dominate the ball, have AD at center, surround them with shooters. Stagger minutes between Westbrook and Lebron so RW can do his thing while the other stars are resting.

That plan is designed to keep guys fresh and to mitigate the Westbrook/Lebron overlap issue. The problem with it is that I don't think the players would accept it. Lebron doesn't want to sit games or reduce his minutes. AD doesn't want to play the 4/5 mix. Westbrook doesn't want to be told that he's Manu Ginobili.

Nice team on paper but I think there is a very decent chance it doesn't work well in the end. But I do tend to underrate superteams (I wasn't especially bullish on the Nets last year, even though they turned out to be extremely scary), so what do I know?

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by In2ition »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:39 am
Gotta say, I think a lot of folks are overrating the Lakers. Lebron is getting old, AD has had problems staying healthy, Westbrook isn't a good shooter and isn't a great fit with Lebron (they both need the ball). And they gave up some of their depth to get those guys together. I don't think they have very good shooters or wing depth at all. They signed a bunch of bantha fodder centers like DeAndre Jordan (barf) who don't play well next to AD anyway; AD should be a 5 full-time. They let Shroeder go, who was an absolute pest to us in the playoffs, and they overpaid Horton-Tucker, who seems like nothing special to me, just an energy guy. I just don't like their roster construction at all. If they were younger I would have more faith that they'd figure it out, but I think with the old versions of Lebron and Westbrook the Lakers are not a real contender. There, I said it.
I agree about the Lakers. It feels like the Malone Payton Lakers or the Nash Dwight Laker teams, where they are setting and not rising. If this was 2012 instead of 2021, it would be a totally different story. It's just hard to imagine that this team stays healthy all yr and in the playoffs or lives up to any of their hype.
Let's Go Brandon! .
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Split T
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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Split T »

Mori Chu wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:23 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:56 am
I agree that I don't think the Lakers will be a great team. I do think they will do better in the playoffs than the regular season, though. So I think they are a legit threat (and maybe a favorite) if they enter the playoffs healthy.
IMO the best plan for the Lakers would be:

- Let Russ go wild in the regular season, let him play 40 minutes or whatever he wants, let him hog the ball, save Lebron and AD's legs a bit. Rest Lebron for 10-15 games, rest him on back-to-backs. Put AD at a mix of the 4/5 to save some wear and tear on his body.

- In the playoffs, do exactly the opposite. Have Lebron dominate the ball, have AD at center, surround them with shooters. Stagger minutes between Westbrook and Lebron so RW can do his thing while the other stars are resting.

That plan is designed to keep guys fresh and to mitigate the Westbrook/Lebron overlap issue. The problem with it is that I don't think the players would accept it. Lebron doesn't want to sit games or reduce his minutes. AD doesn't want to play the 4/5 mix. Westbrook doesn't want to be told that he's Manu Ginobili.

Nice team on paper but I think there is a very decent chance it doesn't work well in the end. But I do tend to underrate superteams (I wasn't especially bullish on the Nets last year, even though they turned out to be extremely scary), so what do I know?
This is what I’d do as well. I think you could get them to buy in to all the regular season stuff. Think you only have to give AD a few flashes at the 5 in the regular season. Keep him healthy as he’s going to be the main 5 come the playoffs. I think Lebron may have had a bit of an eye opening season last year and will be open to resting a bit this year. The trouble will be scaling back Westbrook in the playoffs. Not sure how he’ll feel about that.
Thad Young please

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Re: Around the League: Off-season

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

Teams spent a lot of the season gelling into roles and playing style. Of course, we are talking the best of the best on Lebron and AD, even Westbrook, but still, there is a reason the USA team struggles so much on national play against inferior but highly cohesive talent.

Going from one extreme to the other is not as easy as it sounds.

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